Pfc. Manning to be transferred to Army prison

[There Is No Spoon]

Pfc. Manning to be transferred to Army prison

Amid prisoner abuse accusations, WikiLeaks suspect being moved from Marine Corps brig

By Jim Miklaszewski Chief Pentagon correspondent
NBC News
updated 1 hour 49 minutes ago

WASHINGTON — Under increasing public pressure and facing accusations of prisoner abuse, the Pentagon said Tuesday that it will transfer the soldier suspected of leaking secret documents to the Army prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.

...

The Marines claim they took his clothes to prevent him from injuring himself. Military and Pentagon officials insist the action was punishment for what the Marines considered disrespect from Manning. Such tactics for disciplinary reasons are against military regulations.

Once at Leavenworth, he’ll be placed in a new medium-security facility. Although locked in a cell at night, he’ll have some freedom of movement in an open day room, have contact and take meals with fellow prisoners, shower when he wants and have access to books and TV.

...

U.S. military officials, who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity, deny Manning was tortured, but one said "the Marines blew it” in terms of how they treated him.

...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42668883/ns/..._security/

________________________________________

"the Marines blew it".

[Born_A_Truman]

Won't the complaint be that "now he's too far away from his lawyer and visitors"?

[Still a Democrat]

(04-19-2011 06:17 PM)Born_A_Truman Wrote:  Won't the complaint be that "now he's too far away from his lawyer and visitors"?

Apparently you don't understand giving out truckloads of classified information is an act of heroism.

[Born_A_Truman]

(04-19-2011 07:32 PM)Still a Democrat Wrote:  

(04-19-2011 06:17 PM)Born_A_Truman Wrote:  Won't the complaint be that "now he's too far away from his lawyer and visitors"?

Apparently you don't understand giving out truckloads of classified information is an act of heroism.

Like the FB page wanting Manning to get the Nobel Prize?

[Eponine]

(04-19-2011 07:32 PM)Still a Democrat Wrote:  

(04-19-2011 06:17 PM)Born_A_Truman Wrote:  Won't the complaint be that "now he's too far away from his lawyer and visitors"?

Apparently you don't understand giving out truckloads of classified information is an act of heroism.

Well put.

[Treestar]

(04-19-2011 06:17 PM)Born_A_Truman Wrote:  Won't the complaint be that "now he's too far away from his lawyer and visitors"?

This is the most accurate post on the subject - they will just shift goalposts.

They should not have given in to them unless this was something that would have happened to any prisoner!

[Born_A_Truman]

(04-20-2011 10:08 AM)Treestar Wrote:  

(04-19-2011 06:17 PM)Born_A_Truman Wrote:  Won't the complaint be that "now he's too far away from his lawyer and visitors"?

This is the most accurate post on the subject - they will just shift goalposts.

They should not have given in to them unless this was something that would have happened to any prisoner!

That didn't take long--Jane Hamshre just said as much on MSNBC.

[DFLforever]

That's good. But it's too bad they waited until Manning's treatment became an international incident. Love the way the DOD is blaming the Marines. I doubt they'll give that Asst Secretary of State his job back though.

[There Is No Spoon]

(04-19-2011 07:56 PM)DFLforever Wrote:  That's good. But it's too bad they waited until Manning's treatment became an international incident. Love the way the DOD is blaming the Marines. I doubt they'll give that Asst Secretary of State his job back though.

It was kind of obvious that the treatment was inappropriate, too bad this has turned into a political football vs. being about right & wrong - which ought not have a political bent.

[jaxx]

Well I hope he enjoys his new digs. Leavenworth....the word has a whole new meaning to jail.

[NJMaverick]

he betrayed his oath and his nation. He is not in any way shape or form a hero. I also don't like the poor journalism in the article. This line here wouldn't even be acceptable in a school newspaper (with out something to support it, like actual quotes and names):

"Military and Pentagon officials insist the action was punishment for what the Marines considered disrespect from Manning. Such tactics for disciplinary reasons are against military regulations."

[There Is No Spoon]

(04-20-2011 08:27 AM)NJMaverick Wrote:  he betrayed his oath and his nation. He is not in any way shape or form a hero. I also don't like the poor journalism in the article. This line here wouldn't even be acceptable in a school newspaper (with out something to support it, like actual quotes and names):

"Military and Pentagon officials insist the action was punishment for what the Marines considered disrespect from Manning. Such tactics for disciplinary reasons are against military regulations."

I keep looking for anywhere in the article where it states that what he did wasn't a really bad thing or that he's a "hero" - can you point that out for me?

[NJMaverick]

(04-20-2011 09:33 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 08:27 AM)NJMaverick Wrote:  he betrayed his oath and his nation. He is not in any way shape or form a hero. I also don't like the poor journalism in the article. This line here wouldn't even be acceptable in a school newspaper (with out something to support it, like actual quotes and names):

"Military and Pentagon officials insist the action was punishment for what the Marines considered disrespect from Manning. Such tactics for disciplinary reasons are against military regulations."

I keep looking for anywhere in the article where it states that what he did wasn't a really bad thing or that he's a "hero" - can you point that out for me?

"Under increasing public pressure "

[There Is No Spoon]

(04-20-2011 09:34 AM)NJMaverick Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 09:33 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 08:27 AM)NJMaverick Wrote:  he betrayed his oath and his nation. He is not in any way shape or form a hero. I also don't like the poor journalism in the article. This line here wouldn't even be acceptable in a school newspaper (with out something to support it, like actual quotes and names):

"Military and Pentagon officials insist the action was punishment for what the Marines considered disrespect from Manning. Such tactics for disciplinary reasons are against military regulations."

I keep looking for anywhere in the article where it states that what he did wasn't a really bad thing or that he's a "hero" - can you point that out for me?

"Under increasing public pressure "

Yes, they were under public and international pressure for the alleged bad treatment of the prisoner, I know that. How does that imply that he is somehow not guilty or a "hero"?

[NJMaverick]

(04-20-2011 09:38 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 09:34 AM)NJMaverick Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 09:33 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 08:27 AM)NJMaverick Wrote:  he betrayed his oath and his nation. He is not in any way shape or form a hero. I also don't like the poor journalism in the article. This line here wouldn't even be acceptable in a school newspaper (with out something to support it, like actual quotes and names):

"Military and Pentagon officials insist the action was punishment for what the Marines considered disrespect from Manning. Such tactics for disciplinary reasons are against military regulations."

I keep looking for anywhere in the article where it states that what he did wasn't a really bad thing or that he's a "hero" - can you point that out for me?

"Under increasing public pressure "

Yes, they were under public and international pressure for the alleged bad treatment of the prisoner, I know that. How does that imply that he is somehow not guilty or a "hero"?

Are you unfamiliar with the nature of that pressure and all the people who consider him a hero?

[There Is No Spoon]

(04-20-2011 09:46 AM)NJMaverick Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 09:38 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 09:34 AM)NJMaverick Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 09:33 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 08:27 AM)NJMaverick Wrote:  he betrayed his oath and his nation. He is not in any way shape or form a hero. I also don't like the poor journalism in the article. This line here wouldn't even be acceptable in a school newspaper (with out something to support it, like actual quotes and names):

"Military and Pentagon officials insist the action was punishment for what the Marines considered disrespect from Manning. Such tactics for disciplinary reasons are against military regulations."

I keep looking for anywhere in the article where it states that what he did wasn't a really bad thing or that he's a "hero" - can you point that out for me?

"Under increasing public pressure "

Yes, they were under public and international pressure for the alleged bad treatment of the prisoner, I know that. How does that imply that he is somehow not guilty or a "hero"?

Are you unfamiliar with the nature of that pressure and all the people who consider him a hero?

I do not see how the words/actions of a few activists alters the basic question here - was the prisoner treated appropriately? The UN reprimanded the US for not allowing the prisoner to be interviewed - is the UN calling the prisoner not guilty or a hero?

[USArmyParatrooper]

(04-20-2011 10:02 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  I do not see how the words/actions of a few activists alters the basic question here - was the prisoner treated appropriately? The UN reprimanded the US for not allowing the prisoner to be interviewed - is the UN calling the prisoner not guilty or a hero?

I wrote a lengthy thread addressing Manning's treatment. There is a TON of distortions and blatant falsehoods that get repeated over and over unchallenged, even in the media.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/01...howAll=yes

And YES, the only reason people keep running to his side is because they consider Manning a "hero wistleblower." Apparently leaking 250,000 classified wires you didn't even read makes you a wistleblower.

[Born_A_Truman]

(04-20-2011 10:29 AM)USArmyParatrooper Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 10:02 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  I do not see how the words/actions of a few activists alters the basic question here - was the prisoner treated appropriately? The UN reprimanded the US for not allowing the prisoner to be interviewed - is the UN calling the prisoner not guilty or a hero?

I wrote a lengthy thread addressing Manning's treatment. There is a TON of distortions and blatant falsehoods that get repeated over and over unchallenged, even in the media.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/01...howAll=yes

And YES, the only reason people keep running to his side is because they consider Manning a "hero wistleblower." Apparently leaking 250,000 classified wires you didn't even read makes you a wistleblower.

This!!!

[There Is No Spoon]

(04-20-2011 10:29 AM)USArmyParatrooper Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 10:02 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  I do not see how the words/actions of a few activists alters the basic question here - was the prisoner treated appropriately? The UN reprimanded the US for not allowing the prisoner to be interviewed - is the UN calling the prisoner not guilty or a hero?

I wrote a lengthy thread addressing Manning's treatment. There is a TON of distortions and blatant falsehoods that get repeated over and over unchallenged, even in the media.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/01...howAll=yes

And YES, the only reason people keep running to his side is because they consider Manning a "hero wistleblower." Apparently leaking 250,000 classified wires you didn't even read makes you a wistleblower.

Yes, I've read your analysis. That's not an answer to my question - I really don't care what he did or what other people think. Just because he's not a hero, doesn't mean his treatment was fully appropriate under the circumstances. Just because his treatment was legal, doesn't mean it was also appropriate under the circumstances. I don't give a shit whether he is Jesus or Hitler and I don't care if the "other side" supposedly said stupid things about him being a hero. I haven't read a single post from a person who thinks he's a hero because I think that's not relevant. I'm sharing my opinion here.

[NJMaverick]

(04-20-2011 11:10 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  Just because his treatment was legal, doesn't mean it was also appropriate under the circumstances.

Well my opinion is his treatment was legal than I don't have a problem. With no laws broken I am not about to shed a tear because tis guy is unhappy or the people who think he's a hero are upset. The guy is a horrible human being. I would rather focus my attention of good people who's suffering I actually care about.

[There Is No Spoon]

(04-20-2011 11:33 AM)NJMaverick Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 11:10 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  Just because his treatment was legal, doesn't mean it was also appropriate under the circumstances.

Well my opinion is his treatment was legal than I don't have a problem. With no laws broken I am not about to shed a tear because tis guy is unhappy or the people who think he's a hero are upset. The guy is a horrible human being. I would rather focus my attention of good people who's suffering I actually care about.

Perhaps you missed

Quote:I don't give a shit whether he is Jesus or Hitler and I don't care if the "other side" supposedly said stupid things about him being a hero.

Assuming he is eventually convicted and executed for treason, I won't shed a tear for the man. That is not the point. Demonization arguments are effective tools - but I don't care for them in this instance. This isn't really about Pfc. Manning. It isn't about who is in the White House. It's about how these same people who we were critical of just a few years ago are not suddenly Democrats who would never do anything inappropriate in order to try to get a prisoner to talk. We know they have in the past. These are the same people who worked for Bush when he was President and I see no reason to automatically take their side just because people I don't like are accusing my President of allowing possibly inappropriate behavior by some marines in a maximum security facility.

[USArmyParatrooper]

(04-20-2011 12:35 PM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  Assuming he is eventually convicted and executed for treason, I won't shed a tear for the man. That is not the point. Demonization arguments are effective tools - but I don't care for them in this instance. This isn't really about Pfc. Manning. It isn't about who is in the White House. It's about how these same people who we were critical of just a few years ago are not suddenly Democrats who would never do anything inappropriate in order to try to get a prisoner to talk. We know they have in the past. These are the same people who worked for Bush when he was President and I see no reason to automatically take their side just because people I don't like are accusing my President of allowing possibly inappropriate behavior by some marines in a maximum security facility.

Who are "these people"?

[There Is No Spoon]

(04-20-2011 12:40 PM)USArmyParatrooper Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 12:35 PM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  Assuming he is eventually convicted and executed for treason, I won't shed a tear for the man. That is not the point. Demonization arguments are effective tools - but I don't care for them in this instance. This isn't really about Pfc. Manning. It isn't about who is in the White House. It's about how these same people who we were critical of just a few years ago are not suddenly Democrats who would never do anything inappropriate in order to try to get a prisoner to talk. We know they have in the past. These are the same people who worked for Bush when he was President and I see no reason to automatically take their side just because people I don't like are accusing my President of allowing possibly inappropriate behavior by some marines in a maximum security facility.

Who are "these people"?

Referring to those who are detaining the prisoners - apparently the marines in this case, though in others it could be the CIA, army or whomever else is representing the US government.

[USArmyParatrooper]

(04-20-2011 11:10 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 10:29 AM)USArmyParatrooper Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 10:02 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  I do not see how the words/actions of a few activists alters the basic question here - was the prisoner treated appropriately? The UN reprimanded the US for not allowing the prisoner to be interviewed - is the UN calling the prisoner not guilty or a hero?

I wrote a lengthy thread addressing Manning's treatment. There is a TON of distortions and blatant falsehoods that get repeated over and over unchallenged, even in the media.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/01...howAll=yes

And YES, the only reason people keep running to his side is because they consider Manning a "hero wistleblower." Apparently leaking 250,000 classified wires you didn't even read makes you a wistleblower.

Yes, I've read your analysis. That's not an answer to my question - I really don't care what he did or what other people think. Just because he's not a hero, doesn't mean his treatment was fully appropriate under the circumstances. Just because his treatment was legal, doesn't mean it was also appropriate under the circumstances. I don't give a shit whether he is Jesus or Hitler and I don't care if the "other side" supposedly said stupid things about him being a hero. I haven't read a single post from a person who thinks he's a hero because I think that's not relevant. I'm sharing my opinion here.

My analysis spoke directly about his treatment, not whether or not he's a hero. In my view it's not black and white. First, we only know what Manning and his attorney tell us. Due to privacy issues the brig is not allowed to discuss any mitigating circumstances surrounding his status for maximum custody and personal injury watch.

With that being said, I certainly do not think the Marines handled everything perfectly. The problem is two fold. For starters, Marines are generally dicks by civilian standards. They only know two things, being hard and enforcing discipline. Second, I think the conditions are horrible for every prison in the country. Watch MSNBC's show called Lockup and you'll see what I'm talking about. But everyone goes about their lives completely unaware of what it's like to be locked in these facilities.

Now, in comes the big hero - locked up in one of these places and suddenly people start looking inside. "OMG they're being horrible to Manning!" Well, no dipshit the whole place is horrible but you're so busy trying to coddle your hero you missed the big picture.

[There Is No Spoon]

(04-20-2011 12:30 PM)USArmyParatrooper Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 11:10 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 10:29 AM)USArmyParatrooper Wrote:  

(04-20-2011 10:02 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  I do not see how the words/actions of a few activists alters the basic question here - was the prisoner treated appropriately? The UN reprimanded the US for not allowing the prisoner to be interviewed - is the UN calling the prisoner not guilty or a hero?

I wrote a lengthy thread addressing Manning's treatment. There is a TON of distortions and blatant falsehoods that get repeated over and over unchallenged, even in the media.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/01...howAll=yes

And YES, the only reason people keep running to his side is because they consider Manning a "hero wistleblower." Apparently leaking 250,000 classified wires you didn't even read makes you a wistleblower.

Yes, I've read your analysis. That's not an answer to my question - I really don't care what he did or what other people think. Just because he's not a hero, doesn't mean his treatment was fully appropriate under the circumstances. Just because his treatment was legal, doesn't mean it was also appropriate under the circumstances. I don't give a shit whether he is Jesus or Hitler and I don't care if the "other side" supposedly said stupid things about him being a hero. I haven't read a single post from a person who thinks he's a hero because I think that's not relevant. I'm sharing my opinion here.

My analysis spoke directly about his treatment, not whether or not he's a hero. In my view it's not black and white. First, we only know what Manning and his attorney tell us. Due to privacy issues the brig is not allowed to discuss any mitigating circumstances surrounding his status for maximum custody and personal injury watch.

With that being said, I certainly do not think the Marines handled everything perfectly. The problem is two fold. For starters, Marines are generally dicks by civilian standards. They only know two things, being hard and enforcing discipline. Second, I think the conditions are horrible for every prison in the country. Watch MSNBC's show called Lockup and you'll see what I'm talking about. But everyone goes about their lives completely unaware of what it's like to be locked in these facilities.

Now, in comes the big hero - locked up in one of these places and suddenly people start looking inside. "OMG they're being horrible to Manning!" Well, no dipshit the whole place is horrible but you're so busy trying to coddle your hero you missed the big picture.

I agree with everything you say, including the calling out of those idiots who think he's somehow a hero for having committed treason against the USA. I, too, think we should always be wary of how prisoners are treated and you probably know if you've read other posts of mine that I think the way they treat prisoners on those Lockup Raw shows is also inhuman. I'm not saying that we should coddle prisoners, but there are those intelligent ones on those MSNBC shows who state emphatically that "these people should NEVER be released into society" because the prison has made them MORE CRAZY and MORE ANGRY. The system is broken and Bush helped promote this notion that prisoners are inhuman animals. All well and good in the name of Jesus, right?