And you wonder why teabaggers get more traction than the left

[Dimwitted Fool]

"John Steinbeck once said that socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. This helps explain why American culture is so hostile to the idea of limits, why voters during the last energy shortage rejected the sweater-wearing Jimmy Carter and elected Ronald Reagan, who scoffed at conservation and told them it was 'still morning in America.' Nowhere does the myth of progress have more fervent believers.
-- from "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright"

Discuss.

[Treestar]

That is so true! No matter what the evidence, people think they are potential millionaires, and easily fall for the explanation that they are not is that the government is stopping them.

when what is really stopping them is that they are decent people.

[Velleity]

(03-31-2011 05:09 PM)Dimwitted Fool Wrote:  "John Steinbeck once said that socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. This helps explain why American culture is so hostile to the idea of limits, why voters during the last energy shortage rejected the sweater-wearing Jimmy Carter and elected Ronald Reagan, who scoffed at conservation and told them it was 'still morning in America.' Nowhere does the myth of progress have more fervent believers.
-- from "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright"

Discuss.

I think there is something to that for sure. However the major thing that I see the radical right having, and the radical left not having, is big money interests behind them.

The reality is that money talks and it has been that way forever. No revolution has succeeded without an alignment of money and power. The successful ideology is the one that rationalizes the seizing of power by the money people. When the existing ruling class no longer has the money, there will be a revolution.

The radical left is antithetical to that notion.

[NJMaverick]

The problem is that commentary like this doesn't help sell the American public to follow positions that support their best interests. Instead it just turns off the average American to any message coming from the left. Positions and issues need to be framed in terms of self interest not in terms of how stupid or misguided the American public is.

[The Capitol Punisher]

(08-03-2011 07:05 AM)NJMaverick Wrote:  The problem is that commentary like this doesn't help sell the American public to follow positions that support their best interests. Instead it just turns off the average American to any message coming from the left. Positions and issues need to be framed in terms of self interest not in terms of how stupid or misguided the American public is.

You're correct on that point. In general, our messaging has been atrocious for years - if not decades. Health care reform was a messaging disaster (why we didn't form an all-out attack on insurance companies instead of making it about poor people -- whom most people don't care about -- I'll never understand.) Our legislative strategy of late has been pretty poor as well, of course.

[Treestar]

(08-03-2011 07:55 AM)The Capitol Punisher Wrote:  

(08-03-2011 07:05 AM)NJMaverick Wrote:  The problem is that commentary like this doesn't help sell the American public to follow positions that support their best interests. Instead it just turns off the average American to any message coming from the left. Positions and issues need to be framed in terms of self interest not in terms of how stupid or misguided the American public is.

You're correct on that point. In general, our messaging has been atrocious for years - if not decades. Health care reform was a messaging disaster (why we didn't form an all-out attack on insurance companies instead of making it about poor people -- whom most people don't care about -- I'll never understand.) Our legislative strategy of late has been pretty poor as well, of course.

Probably it is a tightrope for our side - we can't afford to have insurance companies turn all of their might against us. Insurance companies have a lot of money. Likewise the Big Corps and such. For all the leftbaggers venom, we need Wall Street to flourish. Not to say trickle down, but it's just a reality that the economy can't fall apart at that level.

[johnhp]

i always thought that social conditions rather than ideology drives human beings. It is also a question of organizing discontent. The right is very good at creating mechanisms for organizing discontent and this is largely due to its funding.

[Brewman_Jax]

Steinbeck is correct, I just call them "middle-class" millionaires. They "know" that they'll be there...someday, and they want the free reign that they perceive the present millionaires have when it's their turn

[Velleity]

A lot of people do make their livings off of large corporate interests both directly and indirectly. I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to turn against these interests especially when jobs are not so easy to come by.

I think the radical left fails to understand this critical point.

[sandnsea]

That and the ability to always find someone beneath them to rationalize the belief that they aren't the bottom feeders creating the obstacles that keep us all from being rich.

You know... if the blacks would just work harder, the illegals would stop coming here, the women would get out of the work force, the asians wouldn't pile up in one house....

[KonaKane]

Steinbeck was right on the money, and it's because our culture is already deep-wired for an entitled sense of wealth. That's quite a paradox when you think of it, considering the Right expends no small amount of effort and money telling us all that we are not entitled to wealth.