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Amazing Exchange Between Coulter and Hannity
12-06-2012, 01:26 PM
Post: #1
Amazing Exchange Between Coulter and Hannity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEebFCSmm...r_embedded
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12-06-2012, 01:26 PM
Post: #2
RE: Amazing Exchange Between Coulter and Hannity
I despise Ann Coulter as much as anyone but I cannot honestly say that she is stupid. She is clearly on to something here. But before getting to that, notice how glib she is about the economy crashing over the next 4 years. We are headed towards catastrophe, she says as if it was pre-ordained. Why? Because this group identified as "everyone I know" is going to part time work. Of course she slips "Obamacare" in there and, amazingly, she makes another glib claim about how the media convinced everyone that the depression we're in was Bush's fault.

There is so much there. For one, notice the fear mongering. That one sticks out at me. They always have to be fear mongers.

So she's predicting gloom and doom because people aren't working? Hmmmm. That sounds a little Keynesian to me. I thought that we were supposed to get our work from the "job creators?" She seems to have a little problem with her nexus here. The economy is going to crash because people don't have work, but work comes from the "job creators?" Which is it?

It's funny, too, how she just can predict catastrophe, but what happened to the catastrophe that we have just had? It seems like Ann doesn't realize that the economy totally crashed in 2008. And did she predict that catastrophe? I don't remember that she did. I remember my own thinking, which was that it sure seemed like a bubble in the housing market and that sure seemed like we would have a problem when it burst. That seemed obvious to me, yet I don't recall Ann ever saying boo.

On a deeper level what are they really arguing about here? This is what I find truly amazing. The efficacy of their ideology, well to these two pixies that's just a given. But Ann is wisely saying that they cannot win if they come out directly for what we all know them to be for directly. She's right, of course. Hannity is oblivious. Coulter is saying that "conservatives" have to weave this little web of deception as to what their ideology is really all about in order to blame the impending doom on Democrats. After all, she says, they did lose the election.

Hannity is arguing that they have to go down in flames.

The other nice bit of pretzel logic from Ann was the schtick about the existing rich people, like Warren Buffet, and the people who are trying to get rich. She wants to stick it to Warren Buffet? How convoluted is that?
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12-07-2012, 12:23 AM
Post: #3
Coulter is always convoluted...
really the only thing she's good at.

I took the gloom and doom more as red meat to the fearful, conspiracy theory streak among Republicans, ie her customers.

Beyond that, just seemed to be the perpetual argument, realist vs idealist on tactics.
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12-07-2012, 10:06 AM
Post: #4
RE: Amazing Exchange Between Coulter and Hannity
(12-07-2012 12:23 AM)yowzayowzayowza Wrote:  really the only thing she's good at.

I took the gloom and doom more as red meat to the fearful, conspiracy theory streak among Republicans, ie her customers.

Beyond that, just seemed to be the perpetual argument, realist vs idealist on tactics.

True.

I enjoy the cognitive dissonance. Smile
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12-07-2012, 11:36 AM
Post: #5
RE: Amazing Exchange Between Coulter and Hannity
Fascinating conversation. They're both nuts, but at least Coulter still has some grip on reality -- what she's trying to tell Hannity is something the GOP should take note of -- but apparently they would rather just go with being 100% obstinately nuts.
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12-07-2012, 11:38 AM
Post: #6
RE: Amazing Exchange Between Coulter and Hannity
Fascinating conversation. They're both nuts, but at least Coulter still has some grip on reality -- what she's trying to tell Hannity is something the GOP should actually take seriously -- but apparently they'd rather just go with being 100% obstinately nuts.
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12-07-2012, 03:26 PM
Post: #7
RE: Amazing Exchange Between Coulter and Hannity
Pure gallows humor. And, they are the butt of the joke and do not know it.

Neither one of them "get it".

What many people do not understand: we do not actually make anything anymore.
These are a few of the industries that are, essentially ( if not totally) gone: textiles; clothing; shoes; autos; machine tools; appliances; computers and computer components; TVs; etc; etc. Mostly due to free trade and globalization.

This means that many of the decent paying jobs are gone. never to return. Which leads to the end of unions, and a falling standard of living ( two or three part time jobs and both parents working, etc).

This recent bubble was artificial; it was created to buy time. And, the only way to make money was to turn finance into a casino by floating bad paper. A root cause of that was the inability of the USA to actually make anything, as it had all been outsourced.
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12-07-2012, 03:59 PM
Post: #8
RE: Amazing Exchange Between Coulter and Hannity
(12-07-2012 03:26 PM)cannae1 Wrote:  What many people do not understand: we do not actually make anything anymore.

Not exactly true, but let's assume it is. So what?

The only thing I can put my finger on is that a certain segment of the population needs heavy lifting jobs. Otherwise this argument seems to me to be a canard.

In fact today it isn't tangible goods that add the value. It is information, a far more intangible product. I could go on about that but I've already asked you the question, assuming that what you're saying is true.

And let me add this for your consideration: we don't have any shortages of goods or services, as far as I know. We do not live in scarcity and we don't really need more goods and services per se. Keep that in mind when you think about this. Even if it's true that we're not manufacturing, how does that fact affect our wealth? You seem to have assumed that deficiency as a matter of course. I don't see how that's true.
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12-07-2012, 05:36 PM
Post: #9
RE: Amazing Exchange Between Coulter and Hannity
(12-07-2012 03:59 PM)Velleity Wrote:  
(12-07-2012 03:26 PM)cannae1 Wrote:  What many people do not understand: we do not actually make anything anymore.

Not exactly true, but let's assume it is. So what?

The only thing I can put my finger on is that a certain segment of the population needs heavy lifting jobs. Otherwise this argument seems to me to be a canard.

In fact today it isn't tangible goods that add the value. It is information, a far more intangible product. I could go on about that but I've already asked you the question, assuming that what you're saying is true.

And let me add this for your consideration: we don't have any shortages of goods or services, as far as I know. We do not live in scarcity and we don't really need more goods and services per se. Keep that in mind when you think about this. Even if it's true that we're not manufacturing, how does that fact affect our wealth? You seem to have assumed that deficiency as a matter of course. I don't see how that's true.

Things we still make in America:

Fasteners (Screws, bolts, nuts, washers, rivets, nails, etc.)
Aluminum and aluminum products (everything from foil to engine blocks and wheels)
Steel and products made of steel
Plastic and the products made from plastic
Cars
Motorcycles
ATVs
Boats
Diesel engines
Heavy equipment (Dozers, front end loaders, etc.)
Train engines and cars
River barges and tugs

I can go on all day but I do not mean to imply that our manufacturing base hasn't declined but rather that it is not dead and may never be dead. In many cases it makes more sense to make products locally than to incur the risks and costs associated with shipping, especially as those costs escalate.

Epic Fail = GOTV in 2014
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12-08-2012, 06:55 AM
Post: #10
RE: Amazing Exchange Between Coulter and Hannity
Pappy, we still do have a fair amount of manufacturing.
Sometimes, as you stated, it does make sense to make them here.
My point is that the decline of manufacturing is one reason for the decline/stasis in middle class income, decline in union membership. And, one reason for the recent financial/real estate bubble.
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12-08-2012, 07:26 AM
Post: #11
RE: Amazing Exchange Between Coulter and Hannity
velleity

yes, information is very important; there is a lot more of it, and it moves much faster. And, information is a commodity to be bought and sold. But, how much money is to be made buying and selling it? Who are the ones who profit from it?

I am thinking of the lower ranking ( the middle class/working class) employees of these outsourced industries; they made a decent income ( even the non union ones).
Now, that industry is gone. They had to make adjustments.
Some adjusted fairly well. Many have not not.

These decent paying ( and much of their pay came from the overtime pay of 40+ hours a week) jobs are gone. What sort of jobs replaced them, and what do those jobs pay?

This 'adjustment' goes a some way toward explaining the decline/stagnation of middle class/working class income.

I am retired (salaried, I was not in the union) from an auto company, lived in MI. I saw the decline first hand. The younger generation took lower paying jobs in 'service' industries; and/or moved to another state.

I live in Texas now. Fortunately for Texas, the economy is based upon the extraction, refining and selling of oil and natural gas. And, the concerns which support that.


Hannity and Coulter do not understand any of that. That is what amuses me about them.
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12-10-2012, 11:33 AM
Post: #13
RE: Amazing Exchange Between Coulter and Hannity
(12-08-2012 07:26 AM)cannae1 Wrote:  velleity

yes, information is very important; there is a lot more of it, and it moves much faster. And, information is a commodity to be bought and sold. But, how much money is to be made buying and selling it? Who are the ones who profit from it?

I am thinking of the lower ranking ( the middle class/working class) employees of these outsourced industries; they made a decent income ( even the non union ones).
Now, that industry is gone. They had to make adjustments.
Some adjusted fairly well. Many have not not.

These decent paying ( and much of their pay came from the overtime pay of 40+ hours a week) jobs are gone. What sort of jobs replaced them, and what do those jobs pay?

This 'adjustment' goes a some way toward explaining the decline/stagnation of middle class/working class income.

I am retired (salaried, I was not in the union) from an auto company, lived in MI. I saw the decline first hand. The younger generation took lower paying jobs in 'service' industries; and/or moved to another state.

I live in Texas now. Fortunately for Texas, the economy is based upon the extraction, refining and selling of oil and natural gas. And, the concerns which support that.


Hannity and Coulter do not understand any of that. That is what amuses me about them.

Actually information is not a commodity. Information is endless and it is ahead of the commoditization curve.

You correctly identify the problem though, which is that not everyone is capable of capitalizing on information.

I haven't figured that part out yet. I do agree that we need to be able to compensate those who cannot capitalize on information. But in doing that we are fighting some powerful forces.

It may very well be that capitalism is not the answer. We might actually be outgrowing capitalism.
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12-08-2012, 10:32 PM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2012 10:33 PM by MilesColtrane.)
Post: #12
Hannity really needs to commit to either...
a side part or a middle part.

As it is, he looks like a drunken barbershop quartet member.

"I'm not a member of any organized party. I'm a Democrat." -Will Rogers
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12-10-2012, 06:05 PM
Post: #14
RE: Amazing Exchange Between Coulter and Hannity
velleity

Capitalism is a human ( cultural) artifact. A construct that has arisen recently. And, it has many variants. Others came before it.
Marx did an excellent job describing the weak points in Capitalism ( and he was largely right); but, he was a mortal man who could not design a system that would replace it. I think that was illogical to think that he could.

I think that we are 'outgrowing capitalism' ( a good way to put it) and how the system will change - I can not know. But, change it will. I do think that the chnage will be long and difficult.
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