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If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
12-03-2012, 07:26 AM
Post: #1
If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politic...t-handouts

From the article:
Quote:In the wake of Obama’s victory, citizens in several states submitted petitions to secede from the United States. It is something of an irony that the very states seeking secession from “big government”—like Louisiana and Alabama—have been among the top beneficiaries of that selfsame government. Put bluntly, the government would be far smaller without them, and they would seriously struggle far more without it. Indeed, were they to become independent, most would be failed states in need of a bailout. Only this time their benefactor would be not the federal government but the International Monetary Fund, of which the United States is the principal donor. Louisiana and Alabama would go the way of Greece and Spain.

Far from rejecting the “European model,” these would-be campaigners for “independence” are actually embracing it, in their secessionist impulses and in their economic fate. Across the European continent, regions aspiring to be nations are attempting to break away from their mother countries. In November, Catalonian separatists won a huge victory in regional parliamentary elections, handing almost two-thirds of the local parliament to four different parties that all want a referendum on secession. In October, British Prime Minister David Cameron agreed with the Scottish National Party—the single largest party in the Scottish Assembly—to hold a referendum on independence in 2014. Following elections in October, the separatist New Flemish Alliance, which wants to pry Dutch-speaking Flanders from French-speaking Wallonia, won the Belgian election.

...

Damned racists ! They're so mad about the black muslin soshulist winning a second term, they've forgotten what they get. Rolleyes
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If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts? #1 - Brewman_Jax - 12-03-2012, 07:26 AM
72ptheriot and the Neo Confederacy #13 - suzie - 12-05-2012, 07:03 AM
72ptheriot #19 - suzie - 12-07-2012, 05:19 AM
[*]
12-03-2012, 12:25 PM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2012 12:28 PM by 72ptheriot.)
Post: #2
If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
I think if any Texas would be able to pull it off. It wouldn't be easy. They have the oil processor, their own energy plants etc.


One thing to keep in mind is that they would keep all federal taxes to help with the lack of federal help. But let's see what happens when a cat 5 hurricane hits.

They also have ports and can grow and raise most of their food.
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12-03-2012, 07:26 PM
Post: #3
RE: If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
(12-03-2012 12:25 PM)72ptheriot Wrote:  I think if any Texas would be able to pull it off. It wouldn't be easy. They have the oil processor, their own energy plants etc.


One thing to keep in mind is that they would keep all federal taxes to help with the lack of federal help. But let's see what happens when a cat 5 hurricane hits.

They also have ports and can grow and raise most of their food.

Texas doesn't have a state income tax. They would have to initiate their own "federal tax" and pay their own way.

I was born a Truman, but you can call me Pat. Wave

"They want to give people like me a two hundred thousand dollar tax cut that’s paid for by asking thirty three seniors to each pay six thousand dollars more in health costs? That’s not right, and it’s not going to happen as long as I’m President." Barack Obama
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12-03-2012, 11:18 PM
Post: #8
RE: If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
(12-03-2012 12:25 PM)72ptheriot Wrote:  I think if any Texas would be able to pull it off. It wouldn't be easy. They have the oil processor, their own energy plants etc.


One thing to keep in mind is that they would keep all federal taxes to help with the lack of federal help. But let's see what happens when a cat 5 hurricane hits.

They also have ports and can grow and raise most of their food.

Where would they get the oil? The offshore oil is federal.
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12-03-2012, 08:07 PM
Post: #4
If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
There would be tons of hurdles. I was just thinking which state would have the best chance.
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12-03-2012, 08:07 PM
Post: #5
RE: If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
No state will secede, so why even entertain that non-sense?!
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12-03-2012, 08:12 PM
Post: #6
If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
For fun
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12-03-2012, 11:03 PM
Post: #7
RE: If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
[quote='72ptheriot' pid='118441' dateline='1354587123']
For fun
[/quotte] I agree. Afterall, this is SUPPOSED to be a discussion board.
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12-04-2012, 07:32 AM
Post: #9
If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
There are onshore rigs and even the old iron horses still operating. The oil companies would still bring the oil there because of the refineries and infrastructure that's in place. I really think their problem would be emergencies. Once Texas is no longer part of the US and no longer under our protection, Mexico should invade and make it North Mexico.
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12-04-2012, 11:44 PM
Post: #12
RE: If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
(12-04-2012 07:32 AM)72ptheriot Wrote:  There are onshore rigs and even the old iron horses still operating. The oil companies would still bring the oil there because of the refineries and infrastructure that's in place. I really think their problem would be emergencies. Once Texas is no longer part of the US and no longer under our protection, Mexico should invade and make it North Mexico.

Yes there are but Texas' GDP, per capita, isn't one of the best despite its size. It would either have to raise rates to meet the needs of the people through wages, or raise taxes to meet the needs of the people. Either one of those scenarios would keep production out of Texas. I'm not even sure Texas produces enough oil for its own use, let alone to sell elsewhere.
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12-04-2012, 11:10 AM
Post: #10
RE: If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
Just today I saw that Chris Christie is going to DC to ask for several billion for NJ due to Sandy. I guess Texas could ask for foreign aid.

I was born a Truman, but you can call me Pat. Wave

"They want to give people like me a two hundred thousand dollar tax cut that’s paid for by asking thirty three seniors to each pay six thousand dollars more in health costs? That’s not right, and it’s not going to happen as long as I’m President." Barack Obama
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12-04-2012, 02:41 PM
Post: #11
If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
Move getmo to the country of Texas.
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12-05-2012, 07:03 AM
Post: #13
72ptheriot and the Neo Confederacy
Perhaps if 72ptheriot weren't so invested in regaling us with the usual Neo-Confederate Right Wing Talking Points, he might actually add something to the discussion. Interesting that someone who claims to be from South Louisiana thinks that all the infrastructure and oil is off the coast of Texas and not Louisiana. One only needs to look at a rig map to correct that impression.

http://deepseanews.com/wp-content/upload...00x225.jpg

The other RW Talking Point about refineries? Most South Louisianans would have heard the discussions that refineries all over the country are not performing at capacity. Without those in Texas, production would simply be increased elsewhere in the U.S. And no doubt new refineries would be built in the state that still allows that--Louisiana.

Texas can grow their own food--when the native trees are dying from the drought? There are all kinds of water rights cases between states that have been decided in favor of Texas agriculture. Might not many of those be revisited when Texas becomes another country? Also, Texas is among the states each year in reaping the highest benefits of crop insurance, since much of their agricultural land is in perpetual drought conditions. That would go away when Texas became another country.

As would the HUGE military subsidies that go to Texas in the form of high tech USAF bases, defense contracts, military hospitals, VA hospitals, subsidies for Texas schools from the military. No more V-22 Ospreys to keep Ft. Worth's economy afloat. No doubt Austin's tech industries would take a big hit.

Texans hate to pay taxes so much that they've never had a state income tax--but they'd be willing to pay for border protection? Texans love their highways--and would be willing to raise taxes to pay for them once Federal Highway subsidies are gone?

The Neo-Confederate Talking Points about how Texas could survive are silly, but having to read them here on a website for Democrats is more than a little aggravating.
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12-05-2012, 07:44 AM
Post: #14
RE: If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
(12-05-2012 07:03 AM)suzie Wrote:  Perhaps if 72ptheriot weren't so invested in regaling us with the usual Neo-Confederate Right Wing Talking Points, he might actually add something to the discussion. Interesting that someone who claims to be from South Louisiana thinks that all the infrastructure and oil is off the coast of Texas and not Louisiana. One only needs to look at a rig map to correct that impression.

http://deepseanews.com/wp-content/upload...00x225.jpg

The other RW Talking Point about refineries? Most South Louisianans would have heard the discussions that refineries all over the country are not performing at capacity. Without those in Texas, production would simply be increased elsewhere in the U.S. And no doubt new refineries would be built in the state that still allows that--Louisiana.

Texas can grow their own food--when the native trees are dying from the drought? There are all kinds of water rights cases between states that have been decided in favor of Texas agriculture. Might not many of those be revisited when Texas becomes another country? Also, Texas is among the states each year in reaping the highest benefits of crop insurance, since much of their agricultural land is in perpetual drought conditions. That would go away when Texas became another country.

As would the HUGE military subsidies that go to Texas in the form of high tech USAF bases, defense contracts, military hospitals, VA hospitals, subsidies for Texas schools from the military. No more V-22 Ospreys to keep Ft. Worth's economy afloat. No doubt Austin's tech industries would take a big hit.

Texans hate to pay taxes so much that they've never had a state income tax--but they'd be willing to pay for border protection? Texans love their highways--and would be willing to raise taxes to pay for them once Federal Highway subsidies are gone?

The Neo-Confederate Talking Points about how Texas could survive are silly, but having to read them here on a website for Democrats is more than a little aggravating.

This is not a serious person with legitimate ideas to propose or discuss. In fact the only positive role I think he performs here (from my perspective at least) is to remind me when I am feeling low that I am not nearly as inarticulate as I think I am.

He will eventually tire of his juvenile games, emerge from his mommy's basement and discover that there is a real world outside mommy's backdoor. Maybe someday he will even venture out that door.

GOTV in 2014
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12-05-2012, 11:07 AM
Post: #16
RE: If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
(12-05-2012 07:44 AM)pappy Wrote:  
(12-05-2012 07:03 AM)suzie Wrote:  Perhaps if 72ptheriot weren't so invested in regaling us with the usual Neo-Confederate Right Wing Talking Points, he might actually add something to the discussion. Interesting that someone who claims to be from South Louisiana thinks that all the infrastructure and oil is off the coast of Texas and not Louisiana. One only needs to look at a rig map to correct that impression.

http://deepseanews.com/wp-content/upload...00x225.jpg

The other RW Talking Point about refineries? Most South Louisianans would have heard the discussions that refineries all over the country are not performing at capacity. Without those in Texas, production would simply be increased elsewhere in the U.S. And no doubt new refineries would be built in the state that still allows that--Louisiana.

Texas can grow their own food--when the native trees are dying from the drought? There are all kinds of water rights cases between states that have been decided in favor of Texas agriculture. Might not many of those be revisited when Texas becomes another country? Also, Texas is among the states each year in reaping the highest benefits of crop insurance, since much of their agricultural land is in perpetual drought conditions. That would go away when Texas became another country.

As would the HUGE military subsidies that go to Texas in the form of high tech USAF bases, defense contracts, military hospitals, VA hospitals, subsidies for Texas schools from the military. No more V-22 Ospreys to keep Ft. Worth's economy afloat. No doubt Austin's tech industries would take a big hit.

Texans hate to pay taxes so much that they've never had a state income tax--but they'd be willing to pay for border protection? Texans love their highways--and would be willing to raise taxes to pay for them once Federal Highway subsidies are gone?

The Neo-Confederate Talking Points about how Texas could survive are silly, but having to read them here on a website for Democrats is more than a little aggravating.

This is not a serious person with legitimate ideas to propose or discuss. In fact the only positive role I think he performs here (from my perspective at least) is to remind me when I am feeling low that I am not nearly as inarticulate as I think I am.

He will eventually tire of his juvenile games, emerge from his mommy's basement and discover that there is a real world outside mommy's backdoor. Maybe someday he will even venture out that door.

After the Kerry campaign, a few of us from the blog put together a web site. We had one right wing troll, just one, that showed up every single solitary day. Never beligerent, always had personal stories about his business and "the wife", just calmly putting out the right wing talking points, day after day. I came to think of him as our paid assigned troll. You know you've made "the big time" when the RNC assigns you a troll. Most people *would* get bored, but these trolls never do.
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12-05-2012, 08:13 AM
Post: #15
If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
Never said most of the oil rigs are off Texas. I said they have refineries and inshore rigs.

I thought this was kind of a with if thing. Man y'all are so up tight. Relax we won. Have some fun. Not every topic needs to be so tense. If did get something wrong no need for bashing just say hey I think this is wrong and here is why. Loosen up. Personal attacks are as belittling. Beside in south Louisiana there are no basements. Water table is too high.
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12-05-2012, 11:30 AM
Post: #17
If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
I had to go find these RW talking points. I don't think I have brought up any of these. I don't see drones, GMO, NDAA. Wall Street, money is free speech? Corporations are people. These are the topic I brought up. As far the Texas stuff I thought it would be fun to have a chance to see if it would be possible and which state might be able to do it. No of this will happen.
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12-05-2012, 11:33 AM
Post: #18
If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
http://jackjodell53.wordpress.com/2012/0...ng-points/
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12-07-2012, 05:19 AM
Post: #19
72ptheriot
Talk about Texas and how it could successfully secede is always part of right wing "fun."

There are basements in South Louisiana, not in most houses, but in some. You obviously have never lived in South Louisiana.
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12-07-2012, 10:52 AM
Post: #20
If Red States Seceded, Who'd Pay for Their Massive Government Handouts?
(12-07-2012 05:19 AM)suzie Wrote:  Talk about Texas and how it could successfully secede is always part of right wing "fun."

There are basements in South Louisiana, not in most houses, but in some. You obviously have never lived in South Louisiana.

I'm seventy miles south of New Orleans. I think I know south La. Born and raised. More Cajun than Mr. Carville. This is bayou land where some might say choot em. Hate that stuff though. Trust me there aren't any basements in my area.


As for as talking points. Tom Hartman , Rachel Maddow and many more have talked about these topic. They must be right wing trolls.
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