I don't really like Jimmy Carter anymore...

[Drunken Irishman]

First he comes out in favor of extremely restrictive abortion laws and now this:

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/0...-video.php

Quote:JANSING: You’d be comfortable with a Romney presidency?

PRESIDENT CARTER: I’d rather have a Democrat but I would be comfortable — I think Romney has shown in the past, in his previous years as a moderate or progressive … that he was fairly competent as a governor and also running the Olympics as you know. He’s a good, solid family man and so forth, he’s gone to the extreme right-wing positions on some very important issues in order to get the nomination. What he’ll do in the general election, what he’ll do as president I think is different.

He'd be comfortable with Romney as president?

[Born_A_Truman]

Jimmy, you have to be kidding me!

[KonaKane]

DI you know I love ya, but here we go again. So we may not agree with Jimmy Carter about Romney, and now therefore he's a horrible person? All the stuff he's done with Habitat for Humanity etc, swooosh, out the window?

Playing along with the politics of personal destruction, invented by the GOP, is not attractive on a Democrat.

[Drunken Irishman]

(04-25-2012 07:24 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  DI you know I love ya, but here we go again. So we may not agree with Jimmy Carter about Romney, and now therefore he's a horrible person? All the stuff he's done with Habitat for Humanity etc, swooosh, out the window?

Playing along with the politics of personal destruction, invented by the GOP, is not attractive on a Democrat.

I never said Carter was a horrible person. I don't just don't particularly like him right now.

None of what he's done in the past goes out the window, but it shouldn't give him immunity from stupid comments. This was a stupid comment. To show any faith in Mitt Romney only helps him. This election won't be won by Democratic or Republican voters. It's going to be won by independent voters and if you've got prominent Democrats out there saying it's okay if Romney wins, that not all will be lost, then those middle voters, who maybe voted Bush in '04 and Obama in '08, might feel more comfortable voting for Romney.

Carter should know better. He needs to know better. He should say flat out when asked if he'd be comfortable with a Romney presidency that he wouldn't. But instead, he gives reason to vote for Romney because, you know, he'll be a pretty okay president and we shouldn't take what he said in the primaries seriously.

That mindset is something I've seen a lot from politicians on the left. There's this idea that he'll abandon every Republican promise and run this country from the center if elected and I don't believe it. Has Romney, at any point in his life, proven he would be capable of standing up to Republicans? Well, if Romney wins, it's very likely he keeps the House and brings the Senate with him. I don't have faith Romney would say no to anything the Republicans put in front of his desk - from repeal of Obama's healthcare law, to the Paul Ryan Budget Plan.

Carter should know that. He should know how Republicans operate. So, with a question like that, he should have responded simply: "I would have felt comfortable with the Romney from a few years ago. But today's Romney has moved so far to the right, that his ideas are too extreme for this country. I could not, and would not, feel comfortable with that type of ideology in the Oval Office."

Or some shit like that. Instead, he essentially says we should trust that Romney would govern from the middle and that all he said was just politics - as if that's all right. Why is it that Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter feel the need to praise Democratic opponents? Clinton has gotten better, of course, but damn, this shit has got to end.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

(04-25-2012 07:24 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  DI you know I love ya, but here we go again. So we may not agree with Jimmy Carter about Romney, and now therefore he's a horrible person? All the stuff he's done with Habitat for Humanity etc, swooosh, out the window?

Playing along with the politics of personal destruction, invented by the GOP, is not attractive on a Democrat.

Yeah well, cozying up to RWers who have SPLC designated HATE GROUP members as immigration advisors isn't super attractive either.

[KonaKane]

(04-25-2012 07:49 PM)SemiCharmedQuark Wrote:  Yeah well, cozying up to RWers who have SPLC designated HATE GROUP members as immigration advisors isn't super attractive either.

"Cozying up"? You really think that's what Carter was doing? "Gee, Mitt, you look so sexy in that spaghetti strap number, you make me all hot"?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

(04-25-2012 07:56 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 07:49 PM)SemiCharmedQuark Wrote:  Yeah well, cozying up to RWers who have SPLC designated HATE GROUP members as immigration advisors isn't super attractive either.

"Cozying up"? You really think that's what Carter was doing? "Gee, Mitt, you look so sexy in that spaghetti strap number, you make me all hot"?

Saying a guy who appoints a member of a Hate Group as his advisor to anything is a "good man" is cozying up. It certainly isnt holding him accountable for his behavior.

[KonaKane]

(04-25-2012 08:04 PM)SemiCharmedQuark Wrote:  Saying a guy who appoints a member of a Hate Group as his advisor to anything is a "good man" is cozying up. It certainly isnt holding him accountable for his behavior.

I believe Carters words were "He’s a good, solid family man and so forth,", and I gleaned from that he was projecting how Rmoney would be perceived by much of the electorate where those "values" are so important. I highly doubt he was oozing with humanistic admiration for the guy.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

(04-25-2012 08:08 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 08:04 PM)SemiCharmedQuark Wrote:  Saying a guy who appoints a member of a Hate Group as his advisor to anything is a "good man" is cozying up. It certainly isnt holding him accountable for his behavior.

I believe Carters words were "He’s a good, solid family man and so forth,", and I gleaned from that he was projecting how Rmoney would be perceived by much of the electorate where those "values" are so important. I highly doubt he was oozing with humanistic admiration for the guy.

I absolutely can't think of a worse word to describe Romney than "solid". There isn't a single issue he hasn't changed position on.

[KonaKane]

(04-25-2012 08:35 PM)SemiCharmedQuark Wrote:  I absolutely can't think of a worse word to describe Romney than "solid". There isn't a single issue he hasn't changed position on.

He is a solid. A solid jerk. Someone who is willing to say or be whatever it takes to get the next vote. Carter was just pointing up that he's going to try and sell his "family man" BS as hard as he possibly can for the very present and gullible vote that exists for it.

[MilesColtrane]

There are millions of hard-core red staters who, after reading this, would rather stay home in November than pull the lever for somebody Jimmy Carter says he's "comfortable with".

[Andy823]

(04-25-2012 07:28 PM)MilesColtrane Wrote:  There are millions of hard-core red staters who, after reading this, would rather stay home in November than pull the lever for somebody Jimmy Carter says he's "comfortable with".

I was thinking the same thing. When liberals start making comments like this it is not going to sit well with the hard core right wingers. Maybe Jimmy Carter knows this.

[KonaKane]

(04-25-2012 07:34 PM)Andy823 Wrote:  I was thinking the same thing. When liberals start making comments like this it is not going to sit well with the hard core right wingers. Maybe Jimmy Carter knows this.

Carter may be a lot of things to alot of people, but stupid isn't one of them.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

(04-25-2012 07:38 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 07:34 PM)Andy823 Wrote:  I was thinking the same thing. When liberals start making comments like this it is not going to sit well with the hard core right wingers. Maybe Jimmy Carter knows this.

Carter may be a lot of things to alot of people, but stupid isn't one of them.

People who aren't necessarily stupid can say stupid things. This was a STUPID thing to say. More likely than making redstaters stay home it will make independents vote for him and liberals stay home.

[Drunken Irishman]

(04-25-2012 07:38 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 07:34 PM)Andy823 Wrote:  I was thinking the same thing. When liberals start making comments like this it is not going to sit well with the hard core right wingers. Maybe Jimmy Carter knows this.

Carter may be a lot of things to alot of people, but stupid isn't one of them.

No. But smart people make stupid comments all the time. Just look at Bill Clinton during the 2008 Democratic Primary.

[KonaKane]

(04-25-2012 07:48 PM)Drunken Irishman Wrote:  No. But smart people make stupid comments all the time. Just look at Bill Clinton during the 2008 Democratic Primary.

True. But it's not really enough to make me say "That's it, I don't like you anymore." They'd have to do a whole lot more to get me to that stage.

BTW, your concerns about the O man in the swing states are exaggerated. He's doing surprisingly well in them, for a number of reasons none of which have to do with Carter's opinion of Rmoney.

[Drunken Irishman]

(04-25-2012 07:28 PM)MilesColtrane Wrote:  There are millions of hard-core red staters who, after reading this, would rather stay home in November than pull the lever for somebody Jimmy Carter says he's "comfortable with".

And maybe millions of swing-staters who, after reading this, would feel comfortable maybe voting Romney in the general after reading this.

Those red-staters don't matter because their states will remain red. There won't be enough people in, say, Oklahoma, sitting this election out because of Carter's statement to deliver Obama their electoral votes. But there might be enough people in Ohio and Florida and Colorado and Nevada and other swing states who very well could buy into this reasoning and vote Romney in November - or not vote at all.

That's the concern. Carter's statement was reckless. As someone who's been in politics as long as he has, he should know better.

[JeffR]

I think the number is more likely to be measurable in the hundreds of thousands, but that's sufficient to still be a decisive factor in mutliple states.

[janedrake]

Hmn, I'd seen a headline on this and had thought to myself - what in the world? Now, having read the whole quote, I tend to think Carter was "damning with faint praise." Even though there may be that contingent of swing voters who tend to think "Well... if Jimmy Carter likes him, then maybe Romney's not so bad," I'm not as sure he's as relevant to the conversation today as he was even in 2008. I tend to think most swing voters will probably end up not even being aware of his comments, in any case.

[Drunken Irishman]

(04-25-2012 07:48 PM)janedrake Wrote:  Hmn, I'd seen a headline on this and had thought to myself - what in the world? Now, having read the whole quote, I tend to think Carter was "damning with faint praise." Even though there may be that contingent of swing voters who tend to think "Well... if Jimmy Carter likes him, then maybe Romney's not so bad," I'm not as sure he's as relevant to the conversation today as he was even in 2008. I tend to think most swing voters will probably end up not even being aware of his comments, in any case.

Maybe. But I think sometimes a stupid comment is just that - a stupid comment. Nothing more and nothing less. The problem I have here is that it seems to me so many people, whether within the media or now a former president, seem to be hinting at the idea that maybe Romney will just run right back to the center and steer this country from there if elected president. The idea behind it could be to disrupt his soft conservative support, by planting the seeds of doubt and I can definitely agree to a point.

But I can't help but go back to something Bill Maher said a few months ago that ties directly to this point. I'm not a big Maher fan, and I certainly don't take his advice on politics too seriously, but he said that Romney's hoping the American people actually believe he'll govern from the middle and that all this movement to the right was just to win the nomination. And that if we continue to play up this idea that he's nothing more than a flip-flopper, it might ease concerns about Romney's beliefs.

I mean, it wasn't that long ago, maybe a couple days, where Bill Clinton came out and said the WH should hold Romney to his right-wing positions instead of painting him as a flip-flopper on these issues because, in a way, it does ease doubts.

Like I said, this election won't be won by Democrats or Republicans. Most Democrats will vote Obama and most Republicans will vote Romney. It will be won by the middle of the road voters who might be leaning toward Obama, but if they feel comfortable with Romney, could vote for him in the general.

Look, it's not a coincidence Romney's poll numbers tanked the further right he went. In September and October, Romney was winning the independent votes in most polls. Today, he's losing it. He's losing it because he turned those voters off with his extremism. Obama's lead in the polls went up, not because Republicans questioned Romney, but because independent voters became scared of Romney.

We can't give them an opening to return back to his campaign. That's all.

[yowzayowzayowza]

No reason to deny his humanity.

[Brainwreck]

Please consider the fact that Jimmy Carter is getting older and possibly there is some rapid softening of the gray matter taking place. That's the only reason that I can imagine for his suggesting its okay for Romney to fake his position in order to get a nomination, because just possibly he might do things differently as president. Also when is a fairly competent flip-flopping Governor a good candidate for president. He, by the way was never a fairly competent Governor. And he was a tyrant and a braggart when he was dealing with the Olympics. And as a Mormon patriarchal woman hating corporate lackey I don't think I would back him for rat catcher. Yekk! But thats just my opinion.

[jaxx]

Jimmy Carter was the first candidate I knocked on doors for. He did say he would prefer a Democrat win.

[There Is No Spoon]

Quote:Carter predicted President Obama will win the election in the fall, but would not go so far as to say Romney’s shifting positions make him untrustworthy.

“Romney already has a reputation of being changeable in his positions — and so I think that’s a stigma that he’s already been able to weather at least in the Republican primary — if he moves back more to the center position on some major issues, I’m not sure he can suffer any more as being changeable,” Carter said. “So I don’t know how to predict it — but I stick to my prediction that President Obama will win.”

What's with these ex-President's who refuse to demonize the candidate from the other party? Perhaps one's perspective is different after spending several years living in the WH. I like Jimmy Carter.

[Drunken Irishman]

(04-25-2012 08:40 PM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

Quote:Carter predicted President Obama will win the election in the fall, but would not go so far as to say Romney’s shifting positions make him untrustworthy.

“Romney already has a reputation of being changeable in his positions — and so I think that’s a stigma that he’s already been able to weather at least in the Republican primary — if he moves back more to the center position on some major issues, I’m not sure he can suffer any more as being changeable,” Carter said. “So I don’t know how to predict it — but I stick to my prediction that President Obama will win.”

What's with these ex-President's who refuse to demonize the candidate from the other party? Perhaps one's perspective is different after spending several years living in the WH. I like Jimmy Carter.

It'll be interesting to see what the two Republican ex-presidents say. I doubt you'll hear George H.W. Bush out there saying he'd be comfortable with four more years of Obama, though, maybe I'm wrong on that.

[KonaKane]

(04-25-2012 09:10 PM)Drunken Irishman Wrote:  It'll be interesting to see what the two Republican ex-presidents say. I doubt you'll hear George H.W. Bush out there saying he'd be comfortable with four more years of Obama, though, maybe I'm wrong on that.

In all sobering honesty, do you think much of America is hanging on the endorsement of any ex-president, be they Carter or GHWB?

[Drunken Irishman]

(04-25-2012 09:38 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 09:10 PM)Drunken Irishman Wrote:  It'll be interesting to see what the two Republican ex-presidents say. I doubt you'll hear George H.W. Bush out there saying he'd be comfortable with four more years of Obama, though, maybe I'm wrong on that.

In all sobering honesty, do you think much of America is hanging on the endorsement of any ex-president, be they Carter or GHWB?

No, I wouldn't say hanging on his endorsement. But if he came out and said, "you know, I'll vote for Mitt Romney, but I think Obama has been a good president...", I think it would get enough positive play in the media to help him out, even if marginally.

It won't happen, obviously, but, yeah. I mean, I keep hoping Jon Huntsman will throw his support behind Obama.

[There Is No Spoon]

(04-25-2012 09:38 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 09:10 PM)Drunken Irishman Wrote:  It'll be interesting to see what the two Republican ex-presidents say. I doubt you'll hear George H.W. Bush out there saying he'd be comfortable with four more years of Obama, though, maybe I'm wrong on that.

In all sobering honesty, do you think much of America is hanging on the endorsement of any ex-president, be they Carter or GHWB?

Nope. If I thought what he said made a difference, I would have approached this thread differently.

[KonaKane]

Apparently John H. is so miffed at the elephants that he is all but divorcing them this week. Stay tuned.

[Drunken Irishman]

(04-25-2012 10:20 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  Apparently John H. is so miffed at the elephants that he is all but divorcing them this week. Stay tuned.

I hope. He needs to. The party has gone so fucking over the deep end it ain't even funny.

(04-25-2012 11:36 PM)yowzayowzayowza Wrote:  No reason to deny his humanity.

I don't know about that. Carter has been pretty vocal in his opposition to Bush in the past. I honestly believe he feels this way. Which scares me. I hope more Democrats don't.

[suzie]

(04-25-2012 11:41 PM)Drunken Irishman Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 10:20 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  Apparently John H. is so miffed at the elephants that he is all but divorcing them this week. Stay tuned.

I hope. He needs to. The party has gone so fucking over the deep end it ain't even funny.

(04-25-2012 11:36 PM)yowzayowzayowza Wrote:  No reason to deny his humanity.

I don't know about that. Carter has been pretty vocal in his opposition to Bush in the past. I honestly believe he feels this way. Which scares me. I hope more Democrats don't.

A certain part of the right wing hates Jimmy Carter more than anyone else. This is especially true for the Ron Paul types, especially the Ron Paul Evangelical types.

Don't ask me why, I really don't understand their particular hatred for Carter, but it's far worse than for Clinton.

Having him say any nice things about Romney may actually work against Romney among these folk.

[PoliticalTiger]

Carter may be using reverse psychology. Seems to me he's pointing out what a flip-flopper Romney is, in sort of a back handed way.

After all, saying "he’s gone to the extreme right-wing positions on some very important issues in order to get the nomination....what he’ll do as president I think is different" is hardly saying the man is trustworthy.

Either way, I doubt if Carter has enough influence to swing the election one way or another.

[Peacetrain]

I was going to come in and start a thread on this.. glad to see this one is here..

I know exactly what Jimmy Carter is up to. He is tainting Romney with faint praise that he Jimmy Carter could support him because of his previous progressive stances.

While at first it goes down the back like ice water.. but if you think about it.. nothing in this world will get under uber rights skin quicker than having to vote for someone Jimmy Carter thinks is okay.

Who does the right hate more than Jimmy Carter.. for the life of me, I can't think of anyone..

And that is who the republican party is now... the uber right headed up with leaders like rush limbaugh who call women sluts for working for health care for women.

And the Presidents team taking the opposite stance that Romney is too extreme in his positions.. (like supporting the Blunt amendment..Ryan bill.. personhood) .. you know..

I think Romney and the right just got jammed.

[There Is No Spoon]

Let's add some perspective as well...

Bill Clinton praising Sarah Palin, albeit backhandedly Wrote:"People look at her, and they say, 'All those kids. Something that happens in everybody's family. I'm glad she loves her daughter and she's not ashamed of her. Glad that girl's going around with her boyfriend. Glad they're going to get married.'"

"I get this," Clinton said. "My view is ... why say, ever, anything bad about a person? Why don't we like them and celebrate them and be happy for her elevation to the ticket? And just say that she was a good choice for him and we disagree with them?"

There's an art to putting one hand on the shoulder of your enemy while stabbing him in the back with the other; it's an art at which former president Bill Clinton excelled, frankly. My favorite poet would have called this an instance of damning someone with faint praise; in one fell swoop (nodding at another favorite poet) Clinton manages to dismiss Sarah Palin as a political trick while also dissing those voters too simple and naive to see through the charade. Since nobody wants to own up to being a rube, this is an effective bit of work on Bill's part; he's like the smiling neighbor in the front row of the magician's show at a traveling carnival, gently pointing out the wires and the misdirection to the simple fools who thought they were really seeing something.

So here's the lesson. If you're an ex-President and don't want to be written off as "just another partisan hack", NEVER attack the person, attack their policies instead. This is how people remain relevant, and Carter and Clinton know this. Isn't "faint praise" a Southern art form BTW? It's one thing these two men have in common.

[suzie]

Well, Jimmy could have said, "Bless his heart," but that might have been too obvious.

[Treestar]

I'm going to give Jimmy a pass because no one is perfect - then also subscribe to the theory that he's going for the "kiss of death" for Rmoney's base - after all how can they vote for anyone Jimmy Carter would find survivable?

[azmouse]

With 5 months yet to go til the election, Jimmy Carter's words will have no effect at all as they will be completely forgotten because of some other, as of now unknown, stupid thing that someone says.

I'm not losing any sleep over it.

[Still a Democrat]

I'm less uncomfortable with Romney then Gingrich or Santorum.

[Drunken Irishman]

(04-26-2012 07:04 PM)Still a Democrat Wrote:  I'm less uncomfortable with Romney then Gingrich or Santorum.

Not me. They're all the same side of the coin.

I do think Carter would be comfortable with Romney as president. That's what's so damning, IMO and I hope other Democrats don't share that viewpoint or we're going to lose in November.

[azmouse]

I wonder how Carter is feeling about Romney now.

Quote:Asked by a reporter at an event Monday morning whether he would have made the call, Romney said "of course" he would have. "Even Jimmy Carter would have given that order."

Carter is a former naval officer and President. He made tough decisions.

What was tough about Willard's decision to go to France instead of serving in Viet Nam the way so many of his generation did?

Go home, Willard. You are out of your league.