OCCUPY General Assembly scheduled for week of July 4

[KonaKane]

From http://www.the99declaration.org/

BE IT RESOLVED THAT WE, THE NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in order to form a more perfect Union, by, for and of the People, shall elect 878 Delegates the weekend of June 1st, 2012, and convene a NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY the week of July 4, 2012 in the City Of Philadelphia to prepare and ratify a PETITION FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES on behalf of the Ninety-Nine Percent of the People of the United States to be served upon the United States Congress, United States Supreme Court and President of the United States prior to November 6, 2012.

HELP DRAFT THIS HISTORIC DOCUMENT!

The final version of the PETITION FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES, is to be written and ratified solely by the elected Delegates, and may or may not include the following grievances and solutions currently suggested by the 99% Declaration Working Group.

Elimination of the Corporate State.
Overturning the “Citizens United” Case.
Elimination of All Private Benefits to Public Servants.
Term Limits.
A Fair Tax Code.
Health Care for All.
Protection of the Planet.
Debt Reduction.
Jobs for All Americans.
Student Loan Debt Refinancing.
Ending Perpetual War for Profit.
Emergency Reform of Public Education.
End Outsourcing and Currency Manipulation.
Banking and Securities Reform.
Foreclosure Moratorium, Mortgage Refinancing and Principal Write Downs.
Review and Reform of the Federal Reserve Banking System.
Ending the Electoral College and Enactment of Uniform Federal Election Rules.
Ending the War in Afghanistan and Take Care of Veterans.
No Censorship of the Internet.
Reinstitution of Civil Rights Including the Repeal of the NDAA.
Curtailing the Private Prison Industrial Complex.

[jaxx]

What does this mean.....
Elimination of the Corporate State.?
Elimination of All Private Benefits to Public Servants.?
Ending Perpetual War for Profit.?
Ending the Electoral College and Enactment of Uniform Federal Election Rules.?

Those are wide open, subject to 10 interpretations.

I hope they have hired a large venue because trying to hold it on the street would be impossible. They have the money, there would be no reason not to do it in a protected setting.

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-19-2012 08:27 PM)jaxx Wrote:  What does this mean.....
Elimination of the Corporate State.?
Elimination of All Private Benefits to Public Servants.?
Ending Perpetual War for Profit.?
Ending the Electoral College and Enactment of Uniform Federal Election Rules.?

Those are wide open, subject to 10 interpretations.

I hope they have hired a large venue because trying to hold it on the street would be impossible. They have the money, there would be no reason not to do it in a protected setting.

90% of their demands could and have been vocalized by Barack Obama, let's not nit-pick for the sake of tearing them apart as we seem so wont to do here.

[jaxx]

(03-19-2012 08:32 PM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

(03-19-2012 08:27 PM)jaxx Wrote:  What does this mean.....
Elimination of the Corporate State.?
Elimination of All Private Benefits to Public Servants.?
Ending Perpetual War for Profit.?
Ending the Electoral College and Enactment of Uniform Federal Election Rules.?

Those are wide open, subject to 10 interpretations.

I hope they have hired a large venue because trying to hold it on the street would be impossible. They have the money, there would be no reason not to do it in a protected setting.

90% of their demands could and have been vocalized by Barack Obama, let's not nit-pick for the sake of tearing them apart as we seem so wont to do here.

Actually I wasn't nitpicking, I carefully read the demands and have questions.
Tearing them apart? Not hardly....
Let's not play Hatfields and McCoys here.

[There Is No Spoon]

Too late.

[jaxx]

(03-19-2012 09:11 PM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  Too late.

I hope not, spring isn't even here yet. We can discuss it...you know we all have opinions.

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-19-2012 09:16 PM)jaxx Wrote:  

(03-19-2012 09:11 PM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  Too late.

I hope not, spring isn't even here yet. We can discuss it...you know we all have opinions.

I disagree.




It was 80 degrees yesterday, today and will be almost 90 by Thursday, spring came early this year.

[jaxx]

It was hot here too....but now the wind is blowing and it's 73....feels good. Yep, you have some more warm days coming.

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-19-2012 09:31 PM)jaxx Wrote:  It was hot here too....but now the wind is blowing and it's 73....feels good. Yep, you have some more warm days coming.

You know I'm psyched - I get to drive my new machine every day - woot!

[KonaKane]

As you say, I'm sure these points are going to be viewed differently and argued with vigor, but my interpretation of them are:


Elimination of the Corporate State.
The end of virtual rule by corporations, a return to democratic government and power of the one person, one vote. An end to corporate money in place of our system.

Elimination of All Private Benefits to Public Servants.
Congresspeople and graft?

Ending Perpetual War for Profit
That's pretty obvious.

Ending the Electoral College and Enactment of Uniform Federal Election Rules
Giving the presidential election to the popular vote and ending the silly, outdated and elitist Electoral College. Something I heartily agree with. The reasons for establishing such a system have long disappeared.

[jaxx]

(03-20-2012 12:23 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  As you say, I'm sure these points are going to be viewed differently and argued with vigor, but my interpretation of them are:


Elimination of the Corporate State.
The end of virtual rule by corporations, a return to democratic government and power of the one person, one vote. An end to corporate money in place of our system.

Elimination of All Private Benefits to Public Servants.
Congresspeople and graft?

Ending Perpetual War for Profit
That's pretty obvious.

Ending the Electoral College and Enactment of Uniform Federal Election Rules
Giving the presidential election to the popular vote and ending the silly, outdated and elitist Electoral College. Something I heartily agree with. The reasons for establishing such a system have long disappeared.

Thanks for the response Kona. As you can see I still have some questions and would appreciate your thoughts.

Elimination of the Corporate State.
The end of virtual rule by corporations, a return to democratic government and power of the one person, one vote. An end to corporate money in place of our system.
Are you talking Citizens United? Lobbyists? Buying votes in Congress? If so, I agree.

Elimination of All Private Benefits to Public Servants.
Congresspeople and graft?
What kind of benefits are you talking? I really don't know what is considered private benefits.

Ending Perpetual War for Profit
That's pretty obvious.
Meaning paying workers more, the bottom line gets a heart?

Ending the Electoral College and Enactment of Uniform Federal Election Rules
Giving the presidential election to the popular vote and ending the silly, outdated and elitist Electoral College. Something I heartily agree with. The reasons for establishing such a system have long disappeared.
I happen to agree also....but the small population states for some reason fear they will be walked on without the electoral college. To me a vote is a vote.

[NJMaverick]

Jaxx,

If you're having confusion over the wording of these demands/desires imagine the field day the right will have. I can easily see number one being distorted to mean the elimination of corporations. The no internet censorship to me a support for child porn. Just to name a couple. Politics of this sort are not really the best place for armatures and those lacking plenty of political experience.

(03-20-2012 12:38 PM)jaxx Wrote:  

(03-20-2012 12:23 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  As you say, I'm sure these points are going to be viewed differently and argued with vigor, but my interpretation of them are:


Elimination of the Corporate State.
The end of virtual rule by corporations, a return to democratic government and power of the one person, one vote. An end to corporate money in place of our system.

Elimination of All Private Benefits to Public Servants.
Congresspeople and graft?

Ending Perpetual War for Profit
That's pretty obvious.



Ending the Electoral College and Enactment of Uniform Federal Election Rules
Giving the presidential election to the popular vote and ending the silly, outdated and elitist Electoral College. Something I heartily agree with. The reasons for establishing such a system have long disappeared.

Thanks for the response Kona. As you can see I still have some questions and would appreciate your thoughts.

Elimination of the Corporate State.
The end of virtual rule by corporations, a return to democratic government and power of the one person, one vote. An end to corporate money in place of our system.
Are you talking Citizens United? Lobbyists? Buying votes in Congress? If so, I agree.

Elimination of All Private Benefits to Public Servants.
Congresspeople and graft?
What kind of benefits are you talking? I really don't know what is considered private benefits.

Ending Perpetual War for Profit
That's pretty obvious.
Meaning paying workers more, the bottom line gets a heart?

Ending the Electoral College and Enactment of Uniform Federal Election Rules
Giving the presidential election to the popular vote and ending the silly, outdated and elitist Electoral College. Something I heartily agree with. The reasons for establishing such a system have long disappeared.
I happen to agree also....but the small population states for some reason fear they will be walked on without the electoral college. To me a vote is a vote.

[KonaKane]

(03-20-2012 12:45 PM)NJMaverick Wrote:  Jaxx,

If you're having confusion over the wording of these demands/desires imagine the field day the right will have. I can easily see number one being distorted to mean the elimination of corporations. The no internet censorship to me a support for child porn. Just to name a couple. Politics of this sort are not really the best place for armatures and those lacking plenty of political experience.

So let me get this straight. You want to shit all over this huge movement, that is not going away, because the "right will have a field day with it". Sounds like you're chomping at the bit to aid their effort.

You really think that pulling back on net censorship is the same as advocating child porn? Seriously?

I'm not sure what "armatures" you want out of politics, but I can almost guarantee they are not what you characterize them to be.

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-20-2012 12:50 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  

(03-20-2012 12:45 PM)NJMaverick Wrote:  Jaxx,

If you're having confusion over the wording of these demands/desires imagine the field day the right will have. I can easily see number one being distorted to mean the elimination of corporations. The no internet censorship to me a support for child porn. Just to name a couple. Politics of this sort are not really the best place for armatures and those lacking plenty of political experience.

So let me get this straight. You want to shit all over this huge movement, that is not going away, because the "right will have a field day with it". Sounds like you're chomping at the bit to aid their effort.

You really think that pulling back on net censorship is the same as advocating child porn? Seriously?

I'm not sure what "armatures" you want out of politics, but I can almost guarantee they are not what you characterize them to be.

I had the same reaction. When the populous is too cautious to attempt major reforms due to right-wing pressure, we surely have descended into a country ripe for abuse - up to and including dictatorship.

[jaxx]

(03-20-2012 12:45 PM)NJMaverick Wrote:  Jaxx,

If you're having confusion over the wording of these demands/desires imagine the field day the right will have. I can easily see number one being distorted to mean the elimination of corporations. The no internet censorship to me a support for child porn. Just to name a couple. Politics of this sort are not really the best place for armatures and those lacking plenty of political experience.

That is what I meant when I said they are subject to 10 different interpretations. Stuff has to be spelled out. This means This. No wiggle room.

I can appreciate that Occupy is interested in moving the country forward, but it can't be done on 'what if's'. I know this is all in the process of being refined for their General Assembly, but there will have to be definites.

[KonaKane]

Jaxx you ask good questions, and I have to pull back a bit and say I cannot speak for all of "Occupy" so I guess we'll have to find out at convention. However, what I'm seeing from this movement lately, especially in the fielding of state candidates now, is a distinct push toward "democratic legitimacy" and away from solely protesting. That's a good thing, and I believe what will go along with it is a certain amount of savvy when it comes to declarations and manifestos moving forward after the July 4th events.

[jaxx]

(03-20-2012 01:54 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  Jaxx you ask good questions, and I have to pull back a bit and say I cannot speak for all of "Occupy" so I guess we'll have to find out at convention. However, what I'm seeing from this movement lately, especially in the fielding of state candidates now, is a distinct push toward "democratic legitimacy" and away from solely protesting. That's a good thing, and I believe what will go along with it is a certain amount of savvy when it comes to declarations and manifestos moving forward after the July 4th events.

I agree it does look progressive and the outcomes are to be seen after the General Assembly and the convention. My hope is that they will align with the Democratic Party for the general election. Together we can do much.

[NJMaverick]

after all I see only two logical goals one would be the formation of a third party along the lines of the green party. The other option is that OWS becomes like a Democratic version of the Tea Party. I don't find either result particularly appealing. I am wise enough to learn from the mistakes the GOP who are now regretting the formation of the Tea Party. I think we can all agree a third party is not the way to go.

[KonaKane]

(03-20-2012 03:24 PM)NJMaverick Wrote:  after all I see only two logical goals one would be the formation of a third party along the lines of the green party. The other option is that OWS becomes like a Democratic version of the Tea Party. I don't find either result particularly appealing. I am wise enough to learn from the mistakes the GOP who are now regretting the formation of the Tea Party. I think we can all agree a third party is not the way to go.

If you seriously think the OWS is the left version of the Tea Party, then I suggest you simply have not been paying attention.

[pappy]

(03-20-2012 04:12 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  

(03-20-2012 03:24 PM)NJMaverick Wrote:  after all I see only two logical goals one would be the formation of a third party along the lines of the green party. The other option is that OWS becomes like a Democratic version of the Tea Party. I don't find either result particularly appealing. I am wise enough to learn from the mistakes the GOP who are now regretting the formation of the Tea Party. I think we can all agree a third party is not the way to go.

If you seriously think the OWS is the left version of the Tea Party, then I suggest you simply have not been paying attention.

I agree with Kona on this point.

However.

There is a danger of OWS morphing into a variation on the Tea Party theme. To have real impact it has to form more structure and as it does the pressures will come from inside and out to conform to a standard that might not be at all progressive or democratic.

I am not trying to predict the future of OWS but only cautioning against complacency.

[KonaKane]

(03-20-2012 05:14 PM)pappy Wrote:  I agree with Kona on this point.

However.

There is a danger of OWS morphing into a variation on the Tea Party theme. To have real impact it has to form more structure and as it does the pressures will come from inside and out to conform to a standard that might not be at all progressive or democratic.

I am not trying to predict the future of OWS but only cautioning against complacency.

I totally agree with you, pappy. Which is why I'm bewildered when some on my side of the fence demand more structure and motion toward political legitimacy from OWS, and then when they do it, there are still complaints and dismissal of what they have done.

"It's never going to be enough" has an eerily familiar ring to it.

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-20-2012 05:14 PM)pappy Wrote:  I am not trying to predict the future of OWS but only cautioning against complacency.

Not sure my mind would come within 3 football fields to the word "complacent" when describing a movement that is known for at least one thing - it's constantly changing.

[pappy]

(03-20-2012 05:24 PM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

(03-20-2012 05:14 PM)pappy Wrote:  I am not trying to predict the future of OWS but only cautioning against complacency.

Not sure my mind would come within 3 football fields to the word "complacent" when describing a movement that is known for at least one thing - it's constantly changing.

In the 1960's and 70's I never would have used the word "complacent" with respect to the antiwar and civil rights movements. Yet many did become complacent. Now we are fighting many of those battles again because we let down our guard. We thought society and government had turned the corner to the "age of Aquarius" only to discover we were actually on the road to perdition.

Will OWS follow a victory followed with a complacent period where those that would prefer a corporatocracy to a democracy can again begin to reshape our country? I don't know, but if we think it can't happen it is more likely to happen.