Barney Frank To Occupy Wall Street: Where Were You During The Last Midterms?

[Cha]

Snip..

On Monday night Rachel Maddow explained how the Occupy Wall Street movement defied some traditional party lines, or in her words, protesters “aren’t exactly delighted with Democrats either.” She then introduced Rep. Barney Frank, who shared some frustrations with the protesters, saying “I’m unhappy when people didn’t vote last time blame me for the consequences of their not voting.” Frank echoed the thoughts made last week by former Gov. Ed Rendell who basically asked where were these folks during the last mid-term elections.

Snip

Yes, I hope there will be pressure to do even more, but I, again, want to be honest, simply being in a public place and voicing your opinion in and of itself doesn’t do anything politically. It is the prerequisite, I hope, for people getting together and voting and engaging things. and I understand some of the people on occupy wall street are kind of critical of that. They think that’s conventional politics. Well, you know, the most successful organization in America in getting its views adopted is the national rifle association. they are in many cases a minority. But in addition to everything else they do, they very effectively identify who the members of the congress are, the legislatures and vote for them.

So as I said, I welcome the Wall Street energy. I don’t agree with everything some of the people say. I agree with the general thrust of it. it’s not self-executing. It has to be translated into political activity if it’s going to have the impact. you know, I would just say, the last thing, we had an election last year in which people who disagree with them, and disagree with me and with you, got elected. I want to be honest again here. I don’t know what the voting behavior is of all these people, but I’m a little bit unhappy when people didn’t vote last time blame me for the consequences of their not voting.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/barney-frank-...ot-voting/

I'm glad somebody is on record voicing how important it is to vote. .even more so now that the recons are trying more than ever to take away our voting rights. Thank you, Barney Frank.

[jaxx]

Without votes we are doomed to a GOP country. Where is ACORN when we need them?

[Drunken Irishman]

That's just why I'm skeptical of the OWS movement. They'll do a lot of cage rattling, but in the end, can we actually count on them for meaningful change?

Last November, we had a chance to elect a congress that had Obama's back. We didn't because many of these same people stayed home.

Are they going to come out in November? Or are they going to continue staying home, not voting and only getting more and more upset the further down the rabbit hole we go? We need them and they're true to their movement, they'll take this movement to the voting booth. That is one thing the tea-party did well last year. WE NEED TO DO THE SAME THING.

[RoyGBiv]

(10-18-2011 09:24 PM)Drunken Irishman Wrote:  That's just why I'm skeptical of the OWS movement. They'll do a lot of cage rattling, but in the end, can we actually count on them for meaningful change?

Who knows?

But one thing that's wrong with our country, beyond political parties, is that the people who should feel most invested in trying to change things tend to be the least. There are many variables of course, but one reason the ultra-wealthy control things is because they are invested, both literally and figuratively. "The People" at large do not make a coherent investment bloc in either sense, so they keep getting run over.

One of the broad goals of this effort is to wake people up and get them motivated to do *something*. Whether that will translate to votes remains to be seen, but what I do know is that without trying things beyond what we've been trying, nothing is going to change.

All that said, to give a real-world practical example, the Young Democrats at my university have been an ineffectual bit of nothing since the 80s. Hardly anyone even knows they exist, and they mostly don't do anything but sit around and talk smack. Well, the OWS got them motivated. They are currently in the process of using the buzz created as a part of an education and voter registration effort.

That's something positive that wouldn't have happened without OWS.

[Cha]

(10-18-2011 09:24 PM)Drunken Irishman Wrote:  That's just why I'm skeptical of the OWS movement. They'll do a lot of cage rattling, but in the end, can we actually count on them for meaningful change?

Last November, we had a chance to elect a congress that had Obama's back. We didn't because many of these same people stayed home.

Are they going to come out in November? Or are they going to continue staying home, not voting and only getting more and more upset the further down the rabbit hole we go? We need them and they're true to their movement, they'll take this movement to the voting booth. That is one thing the tea-party did well last year. WE NEED TO DO THE SAME THING.

That's exactly right, DI.. the teabaggers got to the polls Midterm exponentially and the so called left were encouraged to stay home..and evidently they did. And, we can see precisely what happened to our country after that.

Freaking FUBARED.

[KonaKane]

The OWS is a true grass roots movement, something you cannot corral and interrogate where it was during X Y and Z. I just happened. It happened because the breaking point was breached. It happened because people finally had enough. It happened because the tipping point was achieved.

Instead of griefing over where it was during this or that, we need to find a way to support and grow and politicize it for the voting booths NOW without hand wringing over what did or didn't happen in the past. Like Naomi Klein says, find a way to support this because its happening WITH OR WITHOUT YOU.

[Cha]

(10-18-2011 09:31 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  The OWS is a true grass roots movement, something you cannot corral and interrogate where it was during X Y and Z. I just happened. It happened because the breaking point was breached. It happened because people finally had enough. It happened because the tipping point was achieved.

Instead of griefing over where it was during this or that, we need to find a way to support and grow and politicize it for the voting booths NOW without hand wringing over what did or didn't happen in the past. Like Naomi Klein says, find a way to support this because its happening WITH OR WITHOUT YOU.

I read Naomi Klein was encouraging people not to vote. That may or may not be true as I can't verify it.

Yeah, I agree about not worrying about what didn't happen..it's what needs to happen is paramount. And, people need to vote if they want change..they were getting a lot of it and it was going in good progressive directiion the first two years of Obama's term in office. But, evidently it wasn't fast enough for some and the teabaggers were all out voting during the Midterms.

There's also the corporatemediawhore$$ to consider..they never give Obama credit and vilify him every chance they get. And, write LIES about him.

[There Is No Spoon]

I saw that, though I don't remember him screaming the entire time.

Rachel stated after his comments (which she generally agreed with) that movements like this influence politics and politicians in ways that aren't as concrete as counting votes on election day. I know one thing, the movement has inspired me and that in itself is an accomplishment. Rachel made a similar statement about how they have already accomplished something in her eyes as well. Oh, and Barney also agreed with her closing sentiment concerning intangibles, so it's not simply black or white - there is nuance here that goes beyond simply walking through the crowds and saying "if you don't vote then why bother." There's a lot of missing the point in being rigid. Thankfully, while it's important that people like Frank emphasize the importance of voting, he also (grudgingly perhaps) agreed with Rachel that there are intangibles that go beyond a single election cycle.

There is something very important being said when people decide that the current system just isn't working for the majority of the people - the "99%". I'm starting to wonder if our government is capable of serving our interests any more due to the influence of massive amounts of corporate money. What good is being educated about voting if the lazy majority gets it's information from the corporate media that is more like Soviet era Pravda these days in the amount of propaganda it spews? We may not be able to have fair elections any more unless the system is reformed (i.e., get the money out.) Why are the majority of Americans, who are generally liberal in their social views, voting for people who want to eliminate all compassion and goodwill in this country? I think people are starting to wake up to the Republicans who tonight cheered like mad when Cain once again blamed unemployed people for being unemployed. I saw those smiling robots in the audience and thought "these people are sadistic monsters." What if money can buy elections like the Koch brothers and the Chamber of Commerce did in 2010? What will we do?

[Cha]

(10-18-2011 11:13 PM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  I saw that, though I don't remember him screaming the entire time.

Rachel stated after his comments (which she generally agreed with) that movements like this influence politics and politicians in ways that aren't as concrete as counting votes on election day. I know one thing, the movement has inspired me and that in itself is an accomplishment. Rachel made a similar statement about how they have already accomplished something in her eyes as well. Oh, and Barney also agreed with her closing sentiment concerning intangibles, so it's not simply black or white - there is nuance here that goes beyond simply walking through the crowds and saying "if you don't vote then why bother." There's a lot of missing the point in being rigid. Thankfully, while it's important that people like Frank emphasize the importance of voting, he also (grudgingly perhaps) agreed with Rachel that there are intangibles that go beyond a single election cycle.

There is something very important being said when people decide that the current system just isn't working for the majority of the people - the "99%". I'm starting to wonder if our government is capable of serving our interests any more due to the influence of massive amounts of corporate money. What good is being educated about voting if the lazy majority gets it's information from the corporate media that is more like Soviet era Pravda these days in the amount of propaganda it spews? We may not be able to have fair elections any more unless the system is reformed (i.e., get the money out.) Why are the majority of Americans, who are generally liberal in their social views, voting for people who want to eliminate all compassion and goodwill in this country? I think people are starting to wake up to the Republicans who tonight cheered like mad when Cain once again blamed unemployed people for being unemployed. I saw those smiling robots in the audience and thought "these people are sadistic monsters." What if money can buy elections like the Koch brothers and the Chamber of Commerce did in 2010? What will we do?

I read that one important thing that OWS has done has gotten the "media" in the US to shift the discussion to what we should be talking about ..and that's JOBS instead of the latest celebrity. I wouldn't know though because I don't watch the media.

I know the Kocheads would be perfectly content to have those who are discontented..not to vote. They can count on their teabaggers to vote.

[Drunken Irishman]

Agreed with Cha. It's important we take the action to the ballot box. Protesting is only half the battle. If you sit out an election and hand Republicans the WH and an even a larger majority, it's all in vain.

It's important those protesting KNOW THIS. That's what made the tea-party a force. As manufactured and fake as it was, it got results at the ballot box. We must counter that.

Unfortunately, I see the mindset is that Democrats and Republicans alike are the same, so there is no point in voting. I disagree entirely and think not voting has gotten us into this mess and sitting an election out certainly won't get us out of it.

[RoyGBiv]

(10-19-2011 12:09 AM)Drunken Irishman Wrote:  Agreed with Cha. It's important we take the action to the ballot box. Protesting is only half the battle. If you sit out an election and hand Republicans the WH and an even a larger majority, it's all in vain.

There is an important part of your statement here that some are not genuinely acknowledging. If protesting is only half the battle, that means it is half the battle. So if we take a critique of the protesters in questioning where they were/will be on election day to its logical conclusion, isn't it fair to ask where those who only show up on election day were during the entirety of the two years between?

I won't be so stringent as to suggest there is literal truth in your statement, but there is in fact a degree of truth in it that is often lost in the conversation. Showing up on election day is important, but if that's all you do, you're not really involved. Activism doesn't have to mean standing on the street corner with a sign, but it does mean direct involvement in some way that affects those beyond your personal bubble. We don't have to show up on CNN to matter, but we do have to show up somewhere, even if it is to get involved in that conversation you're overhearing at the table next to you between people who are genuinely hurting and don't know what to make of all the political mess. That too is a form of protest against the status quo that too many people avoid because they think they've done enough once they've cast their ballots.

Overall, what I'm saying here is that it is right and proper to ask questions about the OWS movement and what it may be accomplishing in the real world. It is also right and proper to ask those not involved in it what they intend to do, what ideas they have that may be better that will get people to the polls on election day.

[Willinois]

They probably voted in 2008. Then conservative Senate Democrats blocked much of what people voted for. People learned that voting doesn't get results, even when Democrats have a large majority in both houses.
At some point the Democratic party needs to face up to the political costs of moving to the right and letting people like Ben Nelson and Blanche Lincoln block the party agenda. OWS would not be happening if the party had acted more decisively.

[Cha]

(10-19-2011 12:23 AM)Willinois Wrote:  They probably voted in 2008. Then conservative Senate Democrats blocked much of what people voted for. People learned that voting doesn't get results, even when Democrats have a large majority in both houses.
At some point the Democratic party needs to face up to the political costs of moving to the right and letting people like Ben Nelson and Blanche Lincoln block the party agenda. OWS would not be happening if the party had acted more decisively.

Voting got results for the deadender tea party in 2010. They have to vote the blue dogs out and some progressives in, then. President Obama cannot do it alone..and even then he got 111 Accomplishements done in the first two years in office..that it seems many don't want to even acknowledge.

Not voting is not an option..that should have been made clear in 2000.

So you're blaming this on the Dems..I don't see that. I see the republicons are to blame and some of the damn dems who have their head up corporate a$$.

[RoyGBiv]

(10-19-2011 12:46 AM)Cha Wrote:  So you're blaming this on the Dems..I don't see that. I see the republicons are to blame and some of the damn dems who have their head up corporate a$$.

It's not about blaming one party in a dualistic scheme of fault finding. There is shared responsibility here, and it is counterproductive not to acknowledge the part some Democrats played in developing the obstructionist Congress, in particular the Senate. This is about determining why things happened the way they did, and there is rarely a single cause in such things. It is also about perception, and in that what Willinois said is ultimately true. Some Democrats left the perception that it didn't matter that we had a Democratic Congress, so they don't associate Democrats as a whole as anything different than Republicans. Is that wrong? Yes. But just saying it won't sell it.

Democrats do need to acknowledge internal failures, that shifting to the right in terms of enacting policy has not worked and will not work on election day.

[Willinois]

(10-19-2011 08:22 AM)RoyGBiv Wrote:  

(10-19-2011 12:46 AM)Cha Wrote:  So you're blaming this on the Dems..I don't see that. I see the republicons are to blame and some of the damn dems who have their head up corporate a$$.

It's not about blaming one party in a dualistic scheme of fault finding. There is shared responsibility here, and it is counterproductive not to acknowledge the part some Democrats played in developing the obstructionist Congress, in particular the Senate. This is about determining why things happened the way they did, and there is rarely a single cause in such things. It is also about perception, and in that what Willinois said is ultimately true. Some Democrats left the perception that it didn't matter that we had a Democratic Congress, so they don't associate Democrats as a whole as anything different than Republicans. Is that wrong? Yes. But just saying it won't sell it.

Democrats do need to acknowledge internal failures, that shifting to the right in terms of enacting policy has not worked and will not work on election day.

Exactly. What those inside the beltway perceive as moving to the center will make it easier to raise special interest money, but those corporate friendly positions have no real voting constituency. Democratic leaders need to understand how they contributed to their loss in 2010 if it's going to be avoided again. Coddling people like Lieberman and Joe Manchin may do more harm than good in the long run.

[nofurylike]

absolutely, Barney Frank.

thank you for posting that, Cha. and thank you, all, for excellent comments.

[There Is No Spoon]

Another thing to note here is that OWS is a massive awareness campaign.

THIS is how you counter the misinformation from the right - i.e. why Fox "news" is attacking the protesters on a daily basis.

Even if the protesters themselves say they are not party affiliated & aren't specifically pushing voting, that is almost a blessing at this point. It makes the movement non-political and about ideas. And the ideas align much more closely with what Democrats stand for, so this is a good thing.

There is a massive difference between telling somebody what they ought to be thinking about in a political ad and having them driven to the streets in realization that something is massively broken with our current government (specifically Wall St. money and influence over Congress, though the President is not immune to their influence either.)

So, if none of the protesters voted (and people who have interviewed them claim that most voted for Obama, so this is not even a valid assumption no matter what they say), the millions and millions who are at the protest in spirit are regular people who would normally vote, AND ARE NOW BEING INFORMED IN A WAY THAT COUNTERS THE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS SPENT BY KOCH, ROVE & THE CofC.

THIS is why these protests are so valuable. Don't think for a minute that just because some of the more vocal protesters are not choosing sides & even claim that both sides are the same & not worth voting for that this movement isn't countering the moronic "teaparty nation" mentality and PUMPING LOTS OF ENERGY INTO LIBERALS NATIONWIDE WHO HAVE BEEN FEELING LEFT OUT. While elected officials need to emphasize that people need to vote, it is not necessarily in the best interest of the movement to get involved in the 2-party political arena where they would then be open to all sorts of new areas of attack.

[atomic]

Barney was dead-on in my opinion. The adamantly anti-Obama left fringe do not accept the consequences of sitting out an election. The GOP-led HoR has outdone themselves trying to overturn the progress made. The same folks are advocating a boycott of the 2012 election. It is incumbent on us ALL to see to it that the GOP scourge is stopped in its tracks.