The Right Wing is always saying that America should be more conservative

[MrScorpio]

…And America is already an incredibly conservative nation. I use "incredibly", because in many ways it still continues to function IN SPITE of how conservative it is. Despite our collective conservatism, on the liberal side of things, you really don't hear that we need to make America "More Liberal". It comes right down to basic differences

Put liberal and conservative politicians side-by-side, and the level of discourse is quite remarkable between the two camps.

Take the most liberal of pols like Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, He's not's saying that America isn't "liberal enough", he says that America has to work for everyone. This is typical for most so-called "liberals":

When you listen to Republican conservatives, you hear remarks about compassion for poor people being akin to some kind of evil deed. Take South Carolina Lt Governor Andre Bauer, for example. His remarks are quite amazing and at the heart of conservative thinking:

The basic language difference between liberals and conservatives couldn't be more striking.

While liberals usually make references of inclusivity and equality, conservatives are always finding ways to separate people. Separations between race, ethnicity, socio-economic class, gender, religion, sexuality, age is always featured in the language of conservatives. Differences which are always depicted as something to fear and hate.

Basically, they're afraid of EVERYTHING, even each other:

When listening to conservatives, one gets the idea that America can NEVER be conservative ENOUGH. That no amount of cruelty can ever be enough to be heaped on those unlike themselves…

Gays and the sick should just die, non-Christians should be thrown in jail, the poor should starve and their children should be sent to Dickensian orphanages and so on and so on. And many Americans, living desperate lives and fearful of their own futures and their familys' future fall for this hateful and violent rhetoric again and again. Even if it's too their OWN detriment: People who vote to restrict some perceived "liberal" evil, like voting rights or "excessive" lawsuit awards find out that those votes are against THEMSELVES.

Conservatives depend on using fear and hatred as the impetus for getting Americans to shoot themselves in their own feet. Voting for Conservatives may always be depicted as "holding the line" but it's always invariably moving twenty steps back.

Any decent person should be appalled when they listen to all the conservative Republican presidential candidates talk about what they want for America if they ever regain total control of the Federal government. The last time that had that kind of control, we almost destroyed ourselves and yet, they claim that the excesses of total Republican control were not conservative enough.

Anyone who cares for the future of America, Americans and the fate of the world around us should take care when dealing with any kind of conservative idea. They should all be rejected out of hand as nothing more than radical and destructive to all of us.

Making America "more conservative" than it is already is nothing more than an exercise in self destruction.

[jaxx]

That's why people should vote for President Obama, he's all about moving this country forward. He stands up for the people and Wall St. despises him.

[pappy]

There is really only one reason one would need to vote for Obama...SCOTUS.

Vote Republican and "Citizens United" is just foreplay for the Corporatist agenda.

[Ikonoklast]

That's it in a nutshell, 'Conservatives' want others to FAIL.

They see it as more for them, if others have less.

[KonaKane]

At the end of the day, I'm bewildered at how we wound up in a historical place where we talk about "conserving" race hate and division.

Since when was that supposed to be a prime American value to conserve?

[Velleity]

They are more ideological. They believe their ideology is a priori, meaning that it is to them correct by definition. No empirical evidence or logic will dissuade them.

We are more pragmatic.

We are also more evolved than "conservatives".

[pappy]

(01-03-2012 04:43 PM)Velleity Wrote:  They are more ideological. They believe their ideology is a priori, meaning that it is to them correct by definition. No empirical evidence or logic will dissuade them.

We are more pragmatic.

We are also more evolved than "conservatives".

AND we are ALWAYS correct!

[KonaKane]

(01-03-2012 05:39 PM)pappy Wrote:  AND we are ALWAYS correct!

No, snarkmeister, not always correct - but PREFERRABLE to the regressive lunatics in the GOP.

[pappy]

(01-03-2012 05:58 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  

(01-03-2012 05:39 PM)pappy Wrote:  AND we are ALWAYS correct!

No, snarkmeister, not always correct - but PREFERRABLE to the regressive lunatics in the GOP.

Well, truth be told, we have our own regressive lunatics on the left that do believe they are always correct. I know I have run into them from time to time on other "democratic" boards.

[KonaKane]

(01-03-2012 06:17 PM)pappy Wrote:  Well, truth be told, we have our own regressive lunatics on the left that do believe they are always correct. I know I have run into them from time to time on other "democratic" boards.

What makes you think they are truly Democrats?

[pappy]

(01-03-2012 08:12 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  

(01-03-2012 06:17 PM)pappy Wrote:  Well, truth be told, we have our own regressive lunatics on the left that do believe they are always correct. I know I have run into them from time to time on other "democratic" boards.

What makes you think they are truly Democrats?

Well it is certainly hard to tell when your dealing online. On the other hand, I have had personal run-ins with people I know are Democrats. Just recently a couple of us in my hometown went toe to toe over whether or not Obama deserves Democratic support in 2012.

They'd rather support Paul, Nader or Kucinich than Obama.

[KonaKane]

(01-03-2012 08:19 PM)pappy Wrote:  Well it is certainly hard to tell when your dealing online. On the other hand, I have had personal run-ins with people I know are Democrats. Just recently a couple of us in my hometown went toe to toe over whether or not Obama deserves Democratic support in 2012.

They'd rather support Paul, Nader or Kucinich than Obama.

We're supposed to have compassion for the mentally handicapped.

[pappy]

(01-03-2012 08:28 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  

(01-03-2012 08:19 PM)pappy Wrote:  Well it is certainly hard to tell when your dealing online. On the other hand, I have had personal run-ins with people I know are Democrats. Just recently a couple of us in my hometown went toe to toe over whether or not Obama deserves Democratic support in 2012.

They'd rather support Paul, Nader or Kucinich than Obama.

We're supposed to have compassion for the mentally handicapped.

Is this really Kona Kane or is this an episode of "Revenge of the Internet Body Snatchers"?

[cannae1]

I agree with Mr Scorpio. Mr Scorpio has laid out why I am a Democrat.
I should be a Republican; I have money; I am cautious, prudent and some of those other 'conservative' virtues. I, also, believe in rational problem solving.

Today's Republicans are incautious, imprudent and intolerant. They, also, are philistine, with no knowledge of ideas such as social and economic justice.

[Velleity]

(01-04-2012 07:42 AM)cannae1 Wrote:  I agree with Mr Scorpio. Mr Scorpio has laid out why I am a Democrat.
I should be a Republican; I have money; I am cautious, prudent and some of those other 'conservative' virtues. I, also, believe in rational problem solving.

Today's Republicans are incautious, imprudent and intolerant. They, also, are philistine, with no knowledge of ideas such as social and economic justice.

They possess about a dozen or so ideological bromides, such as "limited government" and "strict constitutionalism". They earnestly believe that they take these "simple" concepts and apply them rigidly. The fact of the matter is they bend and twist those concepts every time, like in the Bush v. Gore decision.

"Strict constitutionalism" my ass.

Another example of their malleability is with the 2nd Amendment where they wholly ignore the words "a well regulated militia" and the history behind those words, which was really about Jefferson's fears with respect to a standing army.

I think you have to go to the bottom line with "conservatives" and by that I mean just look at the results: unprecedented concentration of wealth, wars of aggression, breaking workers and the middle class, and erosion of civil rights for minorities.

That is what "conservatives" are fighting for. That is what "conservatives" have achieved and continually achieve when they are given an opportunity. That is what "conservatives" are really about and they are willing to lie and disinform in order to achieve those things. They are even willing to lie to and disinform their selves.

[Brewman_Jax]

Why are conservatives and the rabid RW crying that America should be more conservative? Most of them like the liberal policies, but only when it helps THEM, to hell with everyone else. That's been their dog-whistle campaign for years.

"Just don't touch my Medicare!" kinda sums it up.

[Velleity]

Brewman, they are not homogenous. You have the fundies, who just want to proselytize. You have the extremely wealthy who feel that they have achieved their status because they're just better than everyone else. You have a certain number of people feeding at the tough of the wealthy. And then you have just plain old crazy and stupid ideologues, like Ayn Rand cultists and anarcho-capitalists, who just want to drink the Kool-Aid.

It is much easier to drink the Kool-Aid than it is to sort through all of the facts and logic and to actually think about the issues.

[Brewman_Jax]

(01-04-2012 09:50 AM)Velleity Wrote:  It is much easier to drink the Kool-Aid than it is to sort through all of the facts and logic and to actually think about the issues.

You've summed it, and them, up nicely.

[Velleity]

(01-04-2012 10:06 AM)Brewman_Jax Wrote:  

(01-04-2012 09:50 AM)Velleity Wrote:  It is much easier to drink the Kool-Aid than it is to sort through all of the facts and logic and to actually think about the issues.

You've summed it, and them, up nicely.

Thanks Brew.

I've been studying them for years, trying to find any sense that I can find in them and their cognitive dissonance. It isn't easy.

[cannae1]

It is not a philosophy; it is not a set of aideas that are cogently argued.
It is a set of attitudes. They cannot make an argument because they do not have one.
Most of them know nothing of Edmond Burke; Michael Oakshott; Rusell Kirk or William Buckley. Few of them have ever heard of Disraeli.

I am more of a conservative than most Republicans.

[Velleity]

(01-05-2012 03:30 PM)cannae1 Wrote:  It is not a philosophy; it is not a set of aideas that are cogently argued.
It is a set of attitudes. They cannot make an argument because they do not have one.
Most of them know nothing of Edmond Burke; Michael Oakshott; Rusell Kirk or William Buckley. Few of them have ever heard of Disraeli.

I am more of a conservative than most Republicans.

Yes and no.

I too believe in the Burkean notion that radical change is a lousy idea. "Conservatives" are not conservative in the Burkean sense. They are "conservative" in the sense that monarchists and oligarchists who want to revert back to a more feudal society or some other authoritarian, divine rights kind of system.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

Excellent post Mr Scorpio! I personally think that "consertive" is a misnomer when it comes to some (most) of the people you're referring to. "Regressive" is actually how I consider most of them b/c their agenda seeks to roll back progress and take us backwards to a time and place I'm not sure ever existed- or if it did, it's to somewhere IMHO that we should really NOT want to go. If we all thought the Gingrich and the Bush/Cheney years were bad, a WH under the thrall of the Tea Party would be awfu judging just by what we've seen of the House this past year. The best thing that can happen in 2012 is for their ideology and "approach" to governance soundly repudiated at the ballot box. I hope and, yes, pray that they are not considered to be the "future" of our country and that what is going on right now is not prologue for even more dark times to come.

[cannae1]

hear hear, proud liberal Dem