I am FURIOUS!

[CTLawGuy]

I am furious about how utterly disgraceful, shabby, and abusive the far left's treatment of Obama has been for the past 2+ years. It breaks my heart to be honest. The man who told insurance companies that they can no longer discriminate based on gender or a preexisting condition, and that they must spent 85% of their receipts on health care, gets called a Republican. Gay people will be able to serve openly in the military for the first time in history because of this man, and they call him a bigot. He passed a stimulus which calls for increased government spending and tax breaks for workers, and he gets called a "Friedmanite."

If this is how our officeholders get treated by their own "base", then I am never running for any office. I don't know who would want to run, to be honest. This party does not deserve Obama, this country does not deserve him either.

These media assholes like Paul Krugman and Ed Schultz need to run for office so they can put their money where their damn mouths are. It's easy to be right when you are a talking head who will never put their simplistic naive ideas into practice. In fact Eddie said that he wasn't running for ND senate because "he could do much more good" in the media. Fuck that shit. C'mon Eddo, don't deprive this country of your faultless leadership!

Needless to say, I am really upset right now and I needed to express it to someone. God help us if we get another Texas governor (or worse) as president thanks to the far left. They won't care. The far left are wealthy privileged whites who weren't counting on that extension of unemployment benefits that Obama got with the tax cut deal. They aren't uninsured; they can afford to wait another 15 fucking years for the ideal health care bill. Guess what, far left? Most of us can't. The unemployed worker whose benefits would have been lost can't wait. The people who are rejected over and over again for health insurance or who get rescinded as soon as the need insurance the most, can't wait for the ideologically pure bill. They NEED something NOW. And guess what, THEY GOT IT, thanks to this man in the White House! Is it perfect, hell no! Neither was Medicare or Social Security. But not even the magicial FDR and LBJ could get single payer passed.

Thank God we have an adult in the White House. Thank God he realized that not defaulting on our national debt is better than winning an idelogical dick measuring contest or bringing on a major constitutional crisis where the president usurps the power to interpret the constitution in order to ignore the law of the land.

I think in 20, 30 or 50 years, Barack Obama will be seen as a transformative president. From the view of history, people will begin to appreciate the changes he set in motion. And in that time, idiots on the left will whine that, whoever our Democratic president is, he or she needs to be more like BHO. But for now, the climate is too toxic for my comfort...

[Catzmaw]

I'm seeing him as transformative right now, but maybe we're just a little more advanced than the rest of an unappreciative populace because we've taken the time to learn about the system and the issues and just how miraculous it is that he's accomplished anything in this climate. Fortunately, because he IS a transformative person he's going to rise above the negativity and accomplish even more.

[nofurylike]

HEAR, HEAR!!
thank you for saying it! i am too!!

feeling it with you, CTLawGuy. keep talking.

[Cha]

President Obama is a transformative president right now for those who have an ounce of vision.

All one has to do is realize the professional left make money off of PBO Haterade and this country provides plenty of suckers on the left and right to do their masterbaggers' bidding. Throw in the US corporatemediawhores pumping their shit out 24/7 and know they want to fuck us up again. bush didn't kill the country off..quite. Haha.

[Baltoman991]

It's quite evident to me that this country wasn't ready for a man like Barack Obama to be in charge. A smart man, a thinking man, a caring man.

No, the PL'ers wanted another rodeo cowboy only with this one, they wanted him pushing the progressive agenda while saying fuck you to everyone else.

I predict President Obama will win in 2012, he'll have enough support to be re-elected. But should he lose I say good. Good because the PL'ers will have no one, and I mean NO ONE to blame but their sorry, hating, bashines selves. President Obama can sleep easy at night. He has done what a good President is supposed to do.

So come on Ed, come on PUMAS, keep telling the Democrats/Liberals to stay home next year. Give us a President Bachman or a President Romney. But when you do, don't dare run your fucking mouths blaming it on Obama because it will be YOU, the PL'ers who would have fucked this country over.

[OptimistesMaddie]

(08-14-2011 04:16 PM)Baltoman991 Wrote:  It's quite evident to me that this country wasn't ready for a man like Barack Obama to be in charge. A smart man, a thinking man, a caring man.

No, the PL'ers wanted another rodeo cowboy only with this one, they wanted him pushing the progressive agenda while saying fuck you to everyone else.

I predict President Obama will win in 2012, he'll have enough support to be re-elected. But should he lose I say good. Good because the PL'ers will have no one, and I mean NO ONE to blame but their sorry, hating, bashines selves. President Obama can sleep easy at night. He has done what a good President is supposed to do.

So come on Ed, come on PUMAS, keep telling the Democrats/Liberals to stay home next year. Give us a President Bachman or a President Romney. But when you do, don't dare run your fucking mouths blaming it on Obama because it will be YOU, the PL'ers who would have fucked this country over.

Exactly....and don't forget if we lose they will take no responsibility for their actions. They will scream it was Obama's fault for losing the election...

I honestly don't think Junior was bad enough for them.....he was nothing compared to Rick Perry. Perry is a true idiot in cowboy boots.

[suzie]

Saw my favorite politician yesterday, Sen. Bob Graham. The first time that I heard him speak I thought, "I've never heard a politician at any level who is a worse public speaker in my entire life". (And I've spent some time working at the local and state levels). Then, I watched a crowd of Democrats give the man a standing ovation--they loved this guy! When I've seen him in action at the local level, it's always the same--the crowds love him.

A few years ago, I heard him speak about the politics of extremism--which disturbed him so much that he wrote a book about it and put together an institute to try and reinstate Civics as a course in schools. The thing he emphasized is that most general election voters are more moderate--while primary election voters have become more extreme--both left and right.

Which means that the extremes choose candidates that the general election voters don't really want to vote for. So they vote less, which increases the power of the extremes.

And then we get our current gridlock, which most voters don't want. Which also makes them less enthusiastic about any particular Party.

Those on the extremes of both parties want Drama Queens as their candidates. Barack Obama is never going to fit into their vision of a "leader".

They want a liberal Bill Clinton, one who talks a great game, but actually advocates for a very liberal agenda.

The fact that it's not gonna happen in this country doesn't seem to bother them. BTW, most of them would hate Bob Graham as much as they do Obama.

[Number23]

(08-14-2011 04:39 PM)suzie Wrote:  Which means that the extremes choose candidates that the general election voters don't really want to vote for. So they vote less, which increases the power of the extremes.

Really great point, suzie. Growing up, for every black person I knew that voted, I swear there were THREE who saw no purpose for it. And it's not that much better now. They just saw it as an exercise in utter futility, for the reasons you highlighted.

[RoyGBiv]

(08-14-2011 04:39 PM)suzie Wrote:  Which means that the extremes choose candidates that the general election voters don't really want to vote for. So they vote less, which increases the power of the extremes.

I'd like to see some empirical data for that.

I think it can safely be said that the media have done a good job of putting the extremes in our faces, but I don't know that this translates into voting behavior. This certainly has not applied to the Presidential elections in recent memory, though I suppose a surface case could be made for it in more localized elections.

[suzie]

(08-14-2011 07:39 PM)RoyGBiv Wrote:  

(08-14-2011 04:39 PM)suzie Wrote:  Which means that the extremes choose candidates that the general election voters don't really want to vote for. So they vote less, which increases the power of the extremes.

I'd like to see some empirical data for that.

I think it can safely be said that the media have done a good job of putting the extremes in our faces, but I don't know that this translates into voting behavior. This certainly has not applied to the Presidential elections in recent memory, though I suppose a surface case could be made for it in more localized elections.

I believe this article describes Presidential Election voters and details how they're more moderate than those who vote in primaries.

It's quite a good article that probably everyone who's tired of listening to the "left" talk about "we put Obama in office" should read.

http://thirdway.org/programs/5/publications/372

[RoyGBiv]

(08-15-2011 06:12 AM)suzie Wrote:  I believe this article describes Presidential Election voters and details how they're more moderate than those who vote in primaries.

Excellent. Thank you. I'll give it a read.

[Number23]

(08-15-2011 06:12 AM)suzie Wrote:  http://thirdway.org/programs/5/publications/372

Suzie, I was a bit taken aback when I saw your link. On another web site, there are frequent howls from some of the most deranged there about "The Third Way." They make these folks sound like the people-enslaving aliens in "Falling Skies."

After reading their About Us page, I think I've figured out what's causing all of the angst:

"What We Believe

Too often, our national debates are defined by the rigid or outdated orthodoxies of both the left and right. This polarization leads to ideologically driven policies and political gridlock, and it drowns out the voices of millions of Americans in the forgotten middle.

We believe there is a better way, a “third way”—one that discards the false choices presented by both sides. This third way philosophy is ideal for fostering the most effective and emergent approaches to major problems—ones that can attract the plurality of citizens who represent the political center and whose support is crucial to effective and credible governance."
http://thirdway.org/about_us

Yep, the LAST thing a drooling fanaticized ideologue wants to hear is words like "center" and "middle." Anybody less spittle covered than they are simply MUST be the enemy.

[KonaKane]

Let me introduce a bit of silver lining to this cloud. I'm starting to get hints of some backtracking by the worst PL offenders, some "maybe we've been a little harsh on him" type stuff that is beginning to sound like tepid support running up to the election. The fright we are all receiving with the straw poll win of that lunatic from Minnesota may be beginning to shake some sense into them as they look at the horrifying prospect of aiding and abetting such a creature even approaching the White House.

We shall see, but I detect movement in the right direction.

[mcar]

From your keyboard to the PL's ears. I'm just in despair over it all. This President has faced so much in all areas and it's his own "supporters" who are hardest on him.
I will never understand it.

(08-14-2011 04:53 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  Let me introduce a bit of silver lining to this cloud. I'm starting to get hints of some backtracking by the worst PL offenders, some "maybe we've been a little harsh on him" type stuff that is beginning to sound like tepid support running up to the election. The fright we are all receiving with the straw poll win of that lunatic from Minnesota may be beginning to shake some sense into them as they look at the horrifying prospect of aiding and abetting such a creature even approaching the White House.

We shall see, but I detect movement in the right direction.

[There Is No Spoon]

(08-14-2011 04:53 PM)KonaKane Wrote:  Let me introduce a bit of silver lining to this cloud. I'm starting to get hints of some backtracking by the worst PL offenders, some "maybe we've been a little harsh on him" type stuff that is beginning to sound like tepid support running up to the election. The fright we are all receiving with the straw poll win of that lunatic from Minnesota may be beginning to shake some sense into them as they look at the horrifying prospect of aiding and abetting such a creature even approaching the White House.

We shall see, but I detect movement in the right direction.

I suspect you're correct. There will be a point in this Presidential election where "hold the feet to the fire" ends and pragmatism kicks in. I've decided to simply ignore the PL - they seem to exist only on the internet - I don't know a single person in the real world who acts like they do (I don't count the two mentioned in the O/P as they are also not real people - they are pundits.)

[Dragynwynde]

+1, CTlawguy. That reminds me of one of those 'pass around' articles my wife sent me, by Frank Shaeffer. It is long but succinct!

THIS IS AWESOME!


Frank Schaeffer is a New York Times best selling author.



Obama Will Triumph -- So Will America
By Frank Schaeffer

Before he'd served even one year President Obama lost the support of the
easily distracted left and engendered the white hot rage of the hate-filled
right. But some of us, from all walks of life and ideological backgrounds
-- including this white, straight, 57-year- old, former religious right wing
agitator, now progressive writer and (given my background as the son of a
famous evangelical leader) this unlikely Obama supporter -- are sticking with
our President.



Why?-- because he is succeeding.

We faithful Obama supporters still trust our initial impression of him as a
great, good and uniquely qualified man to lead us.

Obama's steady supporters will be proved right. Obama's critics will be
remembered as easily panicked and prematurely discouraged at best and shriveled
hate mongers at worst.

The Context of the Obama Presidency

Not since the days of the rise of fascism in Europe , the Second World War and
the Depression has any president faced more adversity. Not since the Civil War
has any president led a more bitterly divided country. Not since the
introduction of racial integration has any president faced a more consistently
short-sighted and willfully ignorant opposition - from both the right and
left.



As the President's poll numbers have fallen so has his support from some on
the left that were hailing him as a Messiah not long ago; all those lefty
websites and commentators that were falling all over themselves on behalf of
our first black president during the 2008 election.

The left's lack of faith has become a self-fulfilling "prophecy"-- snipe at
the President and then watch the poll numbers fall and then pretend you didn't
have anything to do with it!

Here is what Obama faced when he took office-- none of which was his
fault:

# An ideologically divided country to the point that America was really two
countries

# Two wars; one that was mishandled from the start, the other that was
unnecessary and immoral

# The worst economic crisis since the depression

# America 's standing in the world at the lowest point in history

# A country that had been misled into accepting the use of torture of prisoners
of war

# A health care system in free fall

# An educational system in free fall

# A global environmental crisis of history-altering proportions (about which
the Bush administration and the Republicans had done nothing)

# An impasse between culture warriors from the right and left

# A huge financial deficit inherited from the terminally irresponsible Bush
administration.

And those were only some of the problems sitting on the President's desk!

"Help" from the Right?

What did the Republicans and the religious right, libertarians and half-baked
conspiracy theorists -- that is what the Republicans were reduced to by the
time Obama took office -- do to "help" our new president (and our
country) succeed?



They claimed that he wasn't a real American, didn't have an American birth
certificate, wasn't born here, was secretly a Muslim, was white-hating
"racist", was secretly a communist, was actually the Anti-Christ, (!) and was a
reincarnation of Hitler and wanted "death panels" to kill the elderly!

They not-so-subtly called for his assassination through the not-so-subtle use
of vile signs held at their rallies and even a bumper sticker quoting Psalm
109:8.


They organized "tea parties" to sound off against imagined insults and
all government in general and gathered to howl at the moon.



They were led by insurance industry lobbyists and deranged (but well
financed) "commentators" from Glenn Beck to Rush Limbaugh.

The utterly discredited Roman Catholic bishops teamed up with the utterly
discredited evangelical leaders to denounce a president who was trying to
actually do something about the poor, the environment, to diminish the
number of abortions through compassionate programs to help women and to care
for the sick! And in Congress the Republican leadership only knew one word:
"No!"

In other words the reactionary white, rube, uneducated, crazy American far
right, combined with the educated but obtuse neoconservative war mongers,
religious right shills for big business, libertarian Fed Reserve-hating
gold bug, gun-loving crazies, child-molesting acquiescent "bishops",
frontier loons and evangelical gay-hating flakes found one thing to briefly
unite
them: their desire to stop an uppity black man from succeeding at all
costs!

"Help" from the Left?

What did the left do to help their newly elected president? Some of them
excoriated the President because they disagreed with the bad choices he
was being forced to make regarding a war in Afghanistan that he'd inherited
from the worst president in modern history!

Others stood up and bravely proclaimed that the President's economic
policies had "failed" before the President even instituted them! Others said
that since all gay rights battles had not been fully won within virtually
minutes of the President taking office, they'd been "betrayed"! (Never mind
that Obama's vocal support to the gay community is stronger than any other
president's has been. Never mind that he signed a new hate crimes law!)

Those that had stood in transfixed legions weeping with beatific emotion
on election night turned into an angry mob saying how "disappointed" they
were that they'd not all immediately been translated to heaven the moment
Obama stepped into the White House! Where was the "change"? Contrary to
their expectations they were still mere mortals!

And the legion of young new supporters was too busy texting to pay
attention for longer than a nanosecond. "Governing"?! What the hell does that
word, uh, like mean?"

The President's critics left and right all had one thing in common:
impatience laced with little-to-no sense of history (let alone reality) thrown

in for good measure. Then of course there were the white, snide know-it-
all commentators/talking heads who just couldn't imagine that maybe, just
maybe they weren't as smart as
they thought they were and certainly not as smart as their president. He
hadn't consulted them, had he? So he must be wrong!

The Obama critics' ideological ideas defined their idea of reality rather
than reality defining their ideas-say, about what is possible in one year
in office after the hand that the President had been dealt by fate, or to
be exact by the American idiot nation that voted Bush into office. Twice!

Meanwhile back in the reality-based community - in just 12 short months
-- President Obama:

#Continued to draw down the misbegotten war in Iraq
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Thoughtfully and decisively picked the best of several bad choices
regarding the war in Afghanistan
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Gave a major precedent-setting speech supporting gay rights
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Restored America 's image around the globe
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Banned torture of American prisoners
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Stopped the free fall of the American economy
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Put the USA squarely back in the bilateral international community
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Put the USA squarely into the middle of the international effort to halt
global warming
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Stood up for educational reform
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Won a Nobel peace prize
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Moved the trial of terrorists back into the American judicial system of
checks and balances
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Did what had to be done to start the slow, torturous and almost
impossible process of health care reform that 7 presidents had failed to even
begin
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Responded to hatred from the right and left with measured good humor and
patience
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Stopped the free fall of job losses
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Showed immense personal courage in the face of an armed and dangerous far
right opposition that included the sort of disgusting people that show up
at public meetings carrying loaded weapons and carrying Timothy
McVeigh-inspired signs about the "blood of tyrants" needing to "water the tree
of
liberty".
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

#Showed that he could not only make the tough military choices but explain
and defend them brilliantly
(But that wasn't good enough for his critics)

Other than those "disappointing" accomplishments -- IN ONE YEAR --
President Obama "failed"! Other than that he didn't "live up to expectations"!

Who actually has failed... ...are the Americans that can't see the
beginning of a miracle of national rebirth right under their jaded noses. Who
failed are the smart ass ideologues of the left and right who began rooting
for
this President to fail so that they could be proved right in their dire
and morbid predictions. Who failed are the movers and shakers behind our
obscenely dumb news cycles that have turned "news" into just more stupid
entertainment for an entertainment-besotted infantile country.

Here's the good news: President Obama is succeeding without the help of
his lefty "supporters" or hate-filled Republican detractors!

The Future Looks Good

After Obama has served two full terms, (and he will), after his wisdom in
moving deliberately and cautiously with great subtlety on all fronts --
with a canny and calculating eye to the possible succeeds, (it will), after
the economy is booming and new industries are burgeoning, (they will be),
after the doomsayers are all proved not just wrong but silly: let the
record show that not all Americans were panicked into thinking the sky was
falling.

Just because we didn't get everything we wanted in the first short and
fraught year Obama was in office not all of us gave up. Some of us stayed
the course. And we will be proved right.

PS. if you agree that Obama is shaping up to be a great president, please
pass this on and hang in there! Pass it on anyway to ensure that his
"report card" gets the attention it deserves.

[Dimwitted Fool]

(08-14-2011 05:13 PM)Dragynwynde Wrote:  +1, CTlawguy. That reminds me of one of those 'pass around' articles my wife sent me, by Frank Shaeffer. It is long but succinct!

THIS IS AWESOME!


Frank Schaeffer is a New York Times best selling author.



Obama Will Triumph -- So Will America
By Frank Schaeffer

Before he'd served even one year President Obama lost the support of the
easily distracted left and engendered the white hot rage of the hate-filled
right. But some of us, from all walks of life and ideological backgrounds
-- including this white, straight, 57-year- old, former religious right wing
agitator, now progressive writer and (given my background as the son of a
famous evangelical leader) this unlikely Obama supporter -- are sticking with
our President.

<...>

Excellent article!

I think we'll be seeing a lot more of this thinking as the campaign gets into gear and serious people start taking it seriously.. The right has blown its wad, with nothing more to say, and the PL... Well, nobody listens to them anyway. Their main function seems to be to piss the rest of us off.

[Julie]

I have to agree with all you said here CTLawGuy. Keep on rockin' my friend. I always enjoy your posts.

Julie

[CTLawGuy]

(08-14-2011 05:51 PM)Julie Wrote:  I have to agree with all you said here CTLawGuy. Keep on rockin' my friend. I always enjoy your posts.

Julie

Thank you Julie!!!

[jaxx]

Great rant CT Law Guy, I think many of us feel as you do. The wolves in republican clothing have done the dirty to PBO from day one. I don't know what motivates them....the wish for anarchy, for a very far left agenda to be adopted in this country, or just pure hatred for all things Obama. Whatever, they are disruptive and dishonest.

I haven't noticed a change of them moving away from the disenchantment, but I'll look for it. I hope you are right KonaKane, it is sorely needed. When the right is trying to destroy our President it will take every supporter to stand up for him and to counteract the lies with truth. Not just online, but in coffee shops and grocery stores and wherever we run into the naysayers. If the far left can see this and stop the constant anti-Obama screed, they can help too. If they must gripe I'd rather they shut up.

[Yamaneko]

I think the PL is slowly coming around. Ed Shultz' Friday program featured an interview with the head of the UAW. Shultz blamed the unsatisfactory outcomes of the debt negotiations squarely on the Republicans and praised the President (his words) for the auto deal. Daily Kos' front pagers alternate between yelling at Obama and opposing any move to primary him or abandon him for a third party. A front-page article on Frederick Douglass detailed the frequent and bitter disagreements that Abolitionists had with President Lincoln.

It's very easy, understandable and reasonable to get angry with the Professional Left. They are frequently outrageous, occasionally to the point of pushing or tolerating racist memes. Their demands range from the Obama campaign platform through democratic socialism; a tiny minority would be happy in ANSWER. A quarter-century of Republican advance coincided with Reagan's 11th Commandment, and we'd love to say "Thou shalt not speak ill of any Democrat".

It's also wrong. Obama, channeling FDR, told his supporters to make him follow through on his promises. Angry agitation on the far right has led to far-right policies and made Boehner and Romney look like rational centrists. Angry agitation on the Left does that for Obama. It also moves the topics of discussion leftward: only recently has Serious Media even talked about the income gap and this is a salutary development.

We'll see in late 2011 and early 2012 how the PL evolves. If they decide to heckle and discourage people working for Obama, then to heck with them.

[nofurylike]

(08-14-2011 10:24 PM)Yamaneko Wrote:  I think the PL is slowly coming around. Ed Shultz' Friday program featured an interview with the head of the UAW. Shultz blamed the unsatisfactory outcomes of the debt negotiations squarely on the Republicans and praised the President (his words) for the auto deal. Daily Kos' front pagers alternate between yelling at Obama and opposing any move to primary him or abandon him for a third party. A front-page article on Frederick Douglass detailed the frequent and bitter disagreements that Abolitionists had with President Lincoln.

It's very easy, understandable and reasonable to get angry with the Professional Left. They are frequently outrageous, occasionally to the point of pushing or tolerating racist memes. Their demands range from the Obama campaign platform through democratic socialism; a tiny minority would be happy in ANSWER. A quarter-century of Republican advance coincided with Reagan's 11th Commandment, and we'd love to say "Thou shalt not speak ill of any Democrat".

It's also wrong. Obama, channeling FDR, told his supporters to make him follow through on his promises. Angry agitation on the far right has led to far-right policies and made Boehner and Romney look like rational centrists. Angry agitation on the Left does that for Obama. It also moves the topics of discussion leftward: only recently has Serious Media even talked about the income gap and this is a salutary development.

We'll see in late 2011 and early 2012 how the PL evolves. If they decide to heckle and discourage people working for Obama, then to heck with them.

i hope you are right that the PL is "coming around," Yamaneko. still, those who are capable of "coming around" tend not to actually be among the PL as i, and some here, speak of them.

"Thou shalt not speak ill of any Democrat" is how they characterize what we are saying, in order to put us down, invalidate us. though it would be a lot easier to be sincerely critical of Democrats if the PL had not taken criticism of them off a steep cliff, leaving US the responsibility of correcting their excesses, and so, of NECESSARILY DEFENDING Democrats we might otherwise not have defended at all, we are participatory in this democracy, and we are in touch with our elected officials, especially our legislators, both in criticism and in praise. we let them know our votes as their constituents, and we let them know when they are voting against our votes - where it matters, not where it strokes our egos or our pocketbooks (where the word "professional" comes into PL).

when ed acknowledges the horrible damage he did with his 'don't vote' crap, i'll be more receptive to hearing someone defend him. there is no way to measure the atrocious harm they all did, the repercussions of election 2010.

[There Is No Spoon]

(08-14-2011 10:24 PM)Yamaneko Wrote:  I think the PL is slowly coming around. Ed Shultz' Friday program featured an interview with the head of the UAW. Shultz blamed the unsatisfactory outcomes of the debt negotiations squarely on the Republicans and praised the President (his words) for the auto deal. Daily Kos' front pagers alternate between yelling at Obama and opposing any move to primary him or abandon him for a third party. A front-page article on Frederick Douglass detailed the frequent and bitter disagreements that Abolitionists had with President Lincoln.

It's very easy, understandable and reasonable to get angry with the Professional Left. They are frequently outrageous, occasionally to the point of pushing or tolerating racist memes. Their demands range from the Obama campaign platform through democratic socialism; a tiny minority would be happy in ANSWER. A quarter-century of Republican advance coincided with Reagan's 11th Commandment, and we'd love to say "Thou shalt not speak ill of any Democrat".

It's also wrong. Obama, channeling FDR, told his supporters to make him follow through on his promises. Angry agitation on the far right has led to far-right policies and made Boehner and Romney look like rational centrists. Angry agitation on the Left does that for Obama. It also moves the topics of discussion leftward: only recently has Serious Media even talked about the income gap and this is a salutary development.

We'll see in late 2011 and early 2012 how the PL evolves. If they decide to heckle and discourage people working for Obama, then to heck with them.

I agree with what you say here. I also think we spend altogether too much energy giving strength to the PL by constantly posting about them here. There will always be dissenters, let's not breath life into them.

[nofurylike]

(08-15-2011 07:54 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  I agree with what you say here. I also think we spend altogether too much energy giving strength to the PL by constantly posting about them here. There will always be dissenters, let's not breath life into them.

i know you were not replying to me, TINS, but i just have to interject a word here.

we are here formulating our approaches to an unbelievably important election, and it is here that we will find our voices to address one of the gravest threats, the PL and 'other party' mobs. i do not think we give them anything here by speaking of them, and processing our conflicts. i know that i am constantly searching for words that can reach those who, in frustration, might seek solace from the whiners.

other than that, i agree with you, completely.

[Hekate]

Background: I have been affiliated with the Veterans for Peace (associate, i.e. non-vet member) since the run-up the the invasion of Iraq. The local group is just the finest bunch of people you'd ever want to know, and I enjoyed working with them during the Bush administration. We accomplished wonderful things together.

I moved on after Obama was elected, though I'm still in touch via email announcements. One of my friends, a Korean War veteran, went to the recent VFP national convention and let me know a few days ago that the delegates at the convention passed a resolution to impeach President Obama for war crimes. "What a bunch of crazies!" he said. It feels like they followed Cindy Sheehan right off the cliff.

My friend and I got into this conversation because some of our more hotheaded local leftists cobbled together about 4 dozen names on an email list and started in with plans for god-knows-what, a march on Washington I think. (There's a reference to October 11.) It's the usual shit about betrayal and corporatism and the spineless president who now owns Bush's wars. At one point I tried to divert the conversation with facts and was entirely ignored. Immediately after, about half a dozen people, including me and my friend, asked to be let out of this clown show, but so far no one has cleaned up the list. Some folks who are on vacation have returned home to this accumulated crap and are likewise asking to be let out. Basically I'm taking note of who wants nothing to do with it and considering them still friends, if you know what I mean.

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but this has me very, very disturbed. Impeachment for war crimes?! Bejayzus!

Hekate

[Dimwitted Fool]

It's been muttered by the fringe, but how the hell did it get passed? I heard something about new rules saying only a majority of VFP attendees has to pass a resolution, and maybe the normal members stayed home.

Primary him... Impeach him... And this is from OUR SIDE!

The mind is in a continual state of boggle.

(08-15-2011 01:31 AM)Hekate Wrote:  I moved on after Obama was elected, though I'm still in touch via email announcements. One of my friends, a Korean War veteran, went to the recent VFP national convention and let me know a few days ago that the delegates at the convention passed a resolution to impeach President Obama for war crimes. "What a bunch of crazies!" he said. It feels like they followed Cindy Sheehan right off the cliff.

[Hekate]

I went to the national website and confirmed it. There's a long list of resolutions for this that and the other, and there it was.

(08-15-2011 02:18 AM)Dimwitted Fool Wrote:  It's been muttered by the fringe, but how the hell did it get passed? I heard something about new rules saying only a majority of VFP attendees has to pass a resolution, and maybe the normal members stayed home.

Primary him... Impeach him... And this is from OUR SIDE!

The mind is in a continual state of boggle.

(08-15-2011 01:31 AM)Hekate Wrote:  I moved on after Obama was elected, though I'm still in touch via email announcements. One of my friends, a Korean War veteran, went to the recent VFP national convention and let me know a few days ago that the delegates at the convention passed a resolution to impeach President Obama for war crimes. "What a bunch of crazies!" he said. It feels like they followed Cindy Sheehan right off the cliff.