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**Cha** · 05-08-2011, 05:38 PM

No, it doesn't "make us evil", imv, it makes us smart and protective of ourselves.

There might be better ways to say this but I find myself agreeing with a lot of what MODO has to write about here..

>snip<

I don’t want closure. There is no closure after tragedy.

I want memory, and justice, and revenge.

When you’re dealing with a mass murderer who bragged about incinerating thousands of Americans and planned to kill countless more, that seems like the only civilized and morally sound response.

We briefly celebrated one of the few clear-cut military victories we’ve had in a long time, a win that made us feel like Americans again — smart and strong and capable of finding our enemies and striking back at them without getting trapped in multitrillion-dollar Groundhog Day occupations.

But within days, Naval Seal-gazing shifted to navel-gazing.

There was the bad comedy of solipsistic Republicans with wounded egos trying to make it about how right they were and whinging that George W. Bush was due more credit. Their attempt to renew the debate about torture is itself torture.

W. preferred to sulk in his Dallas tent rather than join President Obama at ground zero in a duet that would have certainly united the country.

>the rest<
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/08/opinio..._LO_MST_FB

Michael Moore: "America has lost something of our soul"
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/michael-moore...bin-laden/

**PoliticalTiger** · 05-08-2011, 06:01 PM

Oh he's so full of shit! It's people like him that give the right ammunition to use against the left to portray us as a bunch of head-in-the-air hippies and all that crap.

And he really is an attention whore, like Sarah Palin ... anytime something newsworthy happens he looks for the nearest camera so he can give his opinion like his opinion is more valid than those of us who don't get interviewed by the media every other day.

**Cha** · 05-08-2011, 06:18 PM

(05-08-2011 06:01 PM)PoliticalTiger Wrote: Oh he's so full of shit! It's people like him that give the right ammunition to use against the left to portray us as a bunch of head-in-the-air hippies and all that crap.

And he really is an attention whore, like Sarah Palin ... anytime something newsworthy happens he looks for the nearest camera so he can give his opinion like his opinion is more valid than those of us who don't get interviewed by the media every other day.

Yeah, I think that's why the corporate media likes giving him a mic. From the transcript it seemed he wasn't exactly sure why we lost some of our soul.

I think we got it back.

**Born_A_Truman** · 05-08-2011, 06:01 PM

Quote:Taking offense after Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations secretary general, said he was “much relieved” at the news of Bin Laden’s death, Kenneth Roth, the executive director of Human Rights Watch, posted the Twitter message: “Ban Ki-moon wrong on Osama bin Laden: It’s not justice for him to be killed even if justified; no trial, conviction.”

Quote:I leave it to subtler minds to parse the distinction between what is just and what is justified.

And I leave it to others to decide if OBL was "human".

**Cha** · 05-08-2011, 06:22 PM

(05-08-2011 06:01 PM)Born_A_Truman Wrote:
Quote:Taking offense after Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations secretary general, said he was “much relieved” at the news of Bin Laden’s death, Kenneth Roth, the executive director of Human Rights Watch, posted the Twitter message: “Ban Ki-moon wrong on Osama bin Laden: It’s not justice for him to be killed even if justified; no trial, conviction.”

Quote:I leave it to subtler minds to parse the distinction between what is just and what is justified.

And I leave it to others to decide if OBL was "human".

"Subtler minds"..that's pretty good. This is America, of course, there would be people whining about the way the Navy SEALs did there job on eliminating the biggest fooking scourge of this century, so far.

**Julie** · 05-08-2011, 06:20 PM

Sometimes MM needs to just sit down and enjoy a tall glass of STFU. I don't know why he feels compelled to comment on every single thing that comes to pass, the world would keep spinning if he didn't.

Julie

***There Is No Spoon*** · 05-08-2011, 06:54 PM

I get the feeling he sits around all day thinking of every possible justification for taking an anti "establishment" view - even when it's a stupendously stupid stretch like his utterly moronic comments on the Bin Laden killing. He ends up looking like a buffoon in this case and I think it adds one more nail in his ever fading star.

**Bryan** · (This post was last modified: 05-09-2011 06:33 PM by Bryan.)

(05-08-2011 06:54 PM)There Is No Spoon Wrote: I get the feeling he sits around all day thinking of every possible justification for taking an anti "establishment" view - even when it's a stupendously stupid stretch like his utterly moronic comments on the Bin Laden killing. He ends up looking like a buffoon in this case and I think it adds one more nail in his ever fading star.

Absolutely. This new edition of Michael Moore is sharply at odds with the satirist who used to get so much mileage out of the Michigan Militia; apparently, he now thinks that religious fundamentalists in armed compounds are being persecuted unfairly by the U.S. government. You learn something new every day...

**Julie** · 05-09-2011, 06:52 PM

(05-09-2011 05:52 PM)Bryan Wrote:
(05-08-2011 06:54 PM)There Is No Spoon Wrote: I get the feeling he sits around all day thinking of every possible justification for taking an anti "establishment" view - even when it's a stupendously stupid stretch like his utterly moronic comments on the Bin Laden killing. He ends up looking like a buffoon in this case and I think it adds one more nail in his ever fading star.

Absolutely. This new edition of Michael Moore is sharply at odds with the satirist who used to get so much mileage out of the Michigan Militia; apparently, he now thinks that religious fundamentalists in armed compounds are being persecuted unfairly by the U.S. government. You learn something new every day...

Excellent point about MM.

**Treestar** · 05-08-2011, 06:57 PM

Yep, that's what the PL is all about.

I've had a subscription to the Nation since the 80s. I remember them complaining about Clinton too, so it's par for the course. The PL really is just against "the establishment" without being for anything.

**Peadar O Suileabhain** · 05-08-2011, 07:30 PM

Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan, and Ted Rall resemble nothing so much as a group of two year olds noisily banging on pots and pans, looking for attention.

**Hekate** · 05-08-2011, 08:52 PM

One thing about Maureen Dowd: she writes well, even when she's just being snarky as all get out. This time, she was spot on, just spot on.

As for Michael Moore -- wtf? Good lord, what a buffoonish thing to say.

**sandnsea** · 05-09-2011, 12:55 AM

While I don't personally care if the mission was to kill Osama unless he laid down in a ball and surrendered - I don't think that was the mission. It was capture or kill. He would have been put on trial if he had surrendered. That's the way our justice system works. Why do people choose to intentionally ignore that when it comes to international crime and terror. And who doesn't celebrate when a serial rapist or killer or child molester or some other cretin is caught?

**jaxx** · 05-09-2011, 09:45 AM

I think it's truly weird that the PL's are doing their damnedest to turn OBL into the victim. This is nothing more than anti-Obamaism on the march. How stupid do they want to be by martyring a mass murderer?

**Cha** · 05-09-2011, 01:32 PM

(05-09-2011 09:45 AM)jaxx Wrote: I think it's truly weird that the PL's are doing their damnedest to turn OBL into the victim. This is nothing more than anti-Obamaism on the march. How stupid do they want to be by martyring a mass murderer?

They turned Bradley Manning into a "victim"..why not go for the whine, bin laden?

They better be careful though..there's just so far that whinya$$ meme will get them.

**Velleity** · (This post was last modified: 05-09-2011 02:33 PM by Velleity.)

It would be great if we weren't at war and if bin Laden hadn't declared war on us and hadn't continued to be the terrorist threat that he has been for the past decade plus. But we are at war and bin Laden did declare war on us and he has continued to be a terrorist threat.

So why am I supposed to grieve bin Laden's demise, and why am I not supposed to commend President Obama? Isn't President Obama, like, doing his job?

I'm beginning to think they hate him because he's competent.

**Ikonoklast** · (This post was last modified: 05-09-2011 06:15 PM by Ikonoklast.)

There are people in this country that just can't get through their fat heads that YES, there are some really bad people in this world that hate us unreasonably for whatever reason they choose to, and would happily slaughter U.S. citizens in cold blood without blinking an eye.

These are the very same people that just don't understand that the liberties they enjoy as citizens of this nation are defended by rough men in this country's service that stand ready to kill others designated as our enemies, so that people like Michael Moore can bitch about the way they did their job and look the fool.

**Julie** · 05-09-2011, 06:50 PM

(05-09-2011 03:15 PM)Ikonoklast Wrote: There are people in this country that just can't get through their fat heads that YES, there are some really bad people in this world that hate us unreasonably for whatever reason they choose to, and would happily slaughter U.S. citizens in cold blood without blinking an eye.

These are the very same people that just don't understand that the liberties they enjoy as citizens of this nation are defended by rough men in this country's service that stand ready to kill others designated as our enemies, so that people like Michael Moore can bitch about the way they did their job and look the fool.

Well said.