ExtremeLiberal(the anti-Cenk) asks: "Is Bradley Manning really being tortured?"

[Cha]

"I know I run the risk of alienating a lot of my readers, but I have to call it how I see it. We must be living in a Twilight Zone, really. If you Google the words “Bradley Manning” and “naked”, you will get over 6 million hits. It may be true that the last 4 million of those hits will be pornography, but is it any different than the first 2 million hits? Everyone seems to be thinking about Bradley Manning standing naked. I knew the internet was full of people who only think about naked people, but the names on these results aren’t your usual suspects. They are liberals who probably paraded around naked at Woodstock and called it freedom. I would have been one of those people, if I had been old enough to go to Woodstock. And a whole lot of the hits you will see if you Google those words will include the word torture or imply it in some way. Is it really torture to make a person accused of a crime stand naked for 3 minutes in a prison cell (a brig)? In my humble opinion, it doesn’t even come close to torture. I’ve spent some time reading about his detention and found the 11 page letter that Bradley Manning wrote about his detention. What he says doesn’t even come close to what Glenn Greenwald and Jane Hamsher have been saying to get those oh-so-wonderful clicks that put more money in their pockets. I found this on his lawyers website and have snipped it up, go read the whole thing…(dated December 18, 2010) http://www.armycourtmartialdefense.info/search?q=letter

The guards at the confinement facility are professional. At no time have they tried to bully, harass, or embarrass PFC Manning.

At 5:00 a.m. he is woken up (on weekends, he is allowed to sleep until 7:00 a.m.). Under the rules for the confinement facility, he is not allowed to sleep at anytime between 5:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m.

He is allowed to watch television during the day. The television stations are limited to the basic local stations. His access to the television ranges from 1 to 3 hours on weekdays to 3 to 6 hours on weekends.

From 7:00 p.m. to 9:20 p.m., he is given correspondence time. He is given access to a pen and paper. He is allowed to write letters to family, friends, and his attorneys.

Each night, during his correspondence time, he is allowed to take a 15 to 20 minute shower.

On weekends and holidays, he is allowed to have approved visitors see him from 12:00 to 3:00 p.m.

He is allowed to have any combination of up to 15 books or magazines. He must request the book or magazine by name.

Due to being held on Prevention of Injury (POI) watch:

At night, if the guards cannot see PFC Manning clearly, because he has a blanket over his head or is curled up towards the wall, they will wake him in order to ensure he is okay.

He is not allowed to have a pillow or sheets. However, he is given access to two blankets and has recently been given a new mattress that has a built-in pillow.

He is only allowed to have one book or one magazine at any given time to read in his cell.

Torture? Really? From all that I’ve read, and I spent a lot of time looking into it, I haven’t seen anything that constitutes torture. Matt Osborne at OsborneInk, about the only other person on the left who sees what bullshit this whole “nontroversy” really is, has this to say about it… Bradley Manning was naked when he joined the Army".. http://www.osborneink.com/2011/03/bradle...-army.html

Like Bradley Manning, I have processed through a MEPS center and been inducted into the US Army. I had to get naked in the basement so a doctor could examine me for anything out of the ordinary. Was Bradley Manning being “tortured” then? Like Manning, I also went through Basic Training where I showered with lots of other naked men. Were we being tortured? We thought so at the time, but mostly because we were constantly being harassed into exercise by drill sergeants. Many of us had already been naked-showering with other guys since Junior High P.E.

Manning has allegedly been “tortured” by not being allowed exercise, but this charge turned out to be untrue as well. All of these charges have come through his attorney, David Coombs, and been amplified by the growing Greenwald-Hamsher chorus. The latest outrage: Bradley Manning is required to strip naked each night, which is exactly like waterboarding him. See how that works?

http://extremeliberal.wordpress.com/

[Born_A_Truman]

On Wednesday March 2, 2011, PFC Manning was told that his Article 138 complaint requesting that he be removed from Maximum custody and Prevention of Injury (POI) Watch had been denied by the Quantico commander, Colonel Daniel J. Choike.

Understandably frustrated by this decision after enduring over seven months of unduly harsh confinement conditions, PFC Manning inquired of the Brig operations officer what he needed to do in order to be downgraded from Maximum custody and POI. As even Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell has stated, PFC Manning has been nothing short of "exemplary" as a detainee. Additionally, Brig forensic psychiatrists have consistently maintained that there is no mental health justification for the POI Watch imposed on PFC Manning.

In response to PFC Manning's question, he was told that there was nothing he could do to downgrade his detainee status and that the Brig simply considered him a risk of self-harm.

PFC Manning then remarked that the POI restrictions were "absurd" and sarcastically stated that if he wanted to harm himself, he could conceivably do so with the elastic waistband of his underwear or with his flip-flops.

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-22-2011 11:14 PM)Born_A_Truman Wrote:  On Wednesday March 2, 2011, PFC Manning was told that his Article 138 complaint requesting that he be removed from Maximum custody and Prevention of Injury (POI) Watch had been denied by the Quantico commander, Colonel Daniel J. Choike.

Understandably frustrated by this decision after enduring over seven months of unduly harsh confinement conditions, PFC Manning inquired of the Brig operations officer what he needed to do in order to be downgraded from Maximum custody and POI. As even Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell has stated, PFC Manning has been nothing short of "exemplary" as a detainee. Additionally, Brig forensic psychiatrists have consistently maintained that there is no mental health justification for the POI Watch imposed on PFC Manning.

In response to PFC Manning's question, he was told that there was nothing he could do to downgrade his detainee status and that the Brig simply considered him a risk of self-harm.

PFC Manning then remarked that the POI restrictions were "absurd" and sarcastically stated that if he wanted to harm himself, he could conceivably do so with the elastic waistband of his underwear or with his flip-flops.

And, of course, sarcasm is a good reason to kneecap a prisoner who has no rights to begin with.

[NJMaverick]

(03-23-2011 08:20 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

(03-22-2011 11:14 PM)Born_A_Truman Wrote:  On Wednesday March 2, 2011, PFC Manning was told that his Article 138 complaint requesting that he be removed from Maximum custody and Prevention of Injury (POI) Watch had been denied by the Quantico commander, Colonel Daniel J. Choike.

Understandably frustrated by this decision after enduring over seven months of unduly harsh confinement conditions, PFC Manning inquired of the Brig operations officer what he needed to do in order to be downgraded from Maximum custody and POI. As even Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell has stated, PFC Manning has been nothing short of "exemplary" as a detainee. Additionally, Brig forensic psychiatrists have consistently maintained that there is no mental health justification for the POI Watch imposed on PFC Manning.

In response to PFC Manning's question, he was told that there was nothing he could do to downgrade his detainee status and that the Brig simply considered him a risk of self-harm.

PFC Manning then remarked that the POI restrictions were "absurd" and sarcastically stated that if he wanted to harm himself, he could conceivably do so with the elastic waistband of his underwear or with his flip-flops.

And, of course, sarcasm is a good reason to kneecap a prisoner who has no rights to begin with.

In the interest of fairness there are a few things in life you NEVER joke or get sarcastic with when on the public record or dealing with authority. First you never joke about a bomb on a plane or any other sort of terrorist plot Secondly you never joke or get sarcastic about suicide. Jail cell suicides are a real issue. People who want to kill themselves can get very creative in how they go about it. If the person succeeds the jailers are held responsible. In this case Manning's lawyers would be the first one's suing and using his comments about how he could kill himself as proof he was contemplating killing himself.

[jaxx]

He should have thought of "what he needed to do in order to be downgraded from Maximum custody and POI" before he stole classified information and passed it to a foreign entity. He's a security risk to the USA.

[Still a Democrat]

(03-23-2011 09:33 AM)jaxx Wrote:  He should have thought of "what he needed to do in order to be downgraded from Maximum custody and POI" before he stole classified information and passed it to a foreign entity. He's a security risk to the USA.

This.

One person tried to defend him by saying he couldn't possibly go through all the documents he had access to, so he forwarded them en masse to Wiki - basically not knowing what they contained.

That's okay?

[Cha]

(03-23-2011 10:50 AM)Still a Democrat Wrote:  

(03-23-2011 09:33 AM)jaxx Wrote:  He should have thought of "what he needed to do in order to be downgraded from Maximum custody and POI" before he stole classified information and passed it to a foreign entity. He's a security risk to the USA.

This.

One person tried to defend him by saying he couldn't possibly go through all the documents he had access to, so he forwarded them en masse to Wiki - basically not knowing what they contained.

That's okay?

I suppose it will come out at the trail..but, that person's defense is incredibly stupid..either way Manning is a traitor.

[Cha]

(03-23-2011 09:33 AM)jaxx Wrote:  He should have thought of "what he needed to do in order to be downgraded from Maximum custody and POI" before he stole classified information and passed it to a foreign entity. He's a security risk to the USA.

Precisely. I wish he would have.

[Andy823]

This whole thing has been hyped up beyond belief! I see so many people who have made this man into some kind of a saint for doing what he did, and have been blaming president Obama for his "torture"! This is just more BS spewed by the far, far left who have hated him since day one, and by the right wing smear machine that seems to invade so many sites these days!

What bothers me is that so many buy into this stuff! I mean we complain about the right wing morons buying into Fox news, or Limbaugh, but we seem to have the same problems on the left, gullible people who never bother to check out the facts!

Thanks for posting this Cha.

[Cha]

(03-23-2011 09:52 AM)Andy823 Wrote:  This whole thing has been hyped up beyond belief! I see so many people who have made this man into some kind of a saint for doing what he did, and have been blaming president Obama for his "torture"! This is just more BS spewed by the far, far left who have hated him since day one, and by the right wing smear machine that seems to invade so many sites these days!

What bothers me is that so many buy into this stuff! I mean we complain about the right wing morons buying into Fox news, or Limbaugh, but we seem to have the same problems on the left, gullible people who never bother to check out the facts!

Thanks for posting this Cha.

They want to buy into it..the terminal Pres Obama haters are more than 1/2 sold before it comes out of the gate.

[Willinois]

I wish I could trust Greenwald because he writes about important issues, but his habit of carefully worded exaggeration brings all of his claims into question.

If one believes that being held in a maximum security military brig is inhumane, then yes, he's being tortured. That's a systemic issue involving the prison system. But, the language being used suggests something very different that simply isn't true.

[Treestar]

Unpleasant in many ways, but calling it "torture" is exaggerated and undermines real torture.

[Cha]

(03-23-2011 01:03 PM)Treestar Wrote:  Unpleasant in many ways, but calling it "torture" is exaggerated and undermines real torture.

I wish Manning would have thought about how "unpleasant" it would be for those he cavalierly exposed in the classified information that he passed on without even knowing(if that was indeed the case)(either way) what all was in them(the stupid burns) and himself.

[USArmyParatrooper]

I've been battling this out on Dailykos on a regular basis. I typically have one or two supporters while I battle the entire mob, dispelling myth after myth.

[Cha]

(03-23-2011 06:09 PM)USArmyParatrooper Wrote:  I've been battling this out on Dailykos on a regular basis. I typically have one or two supporters while I battle the entire mob, dispelling myth after myth.

I bet..the haters are using it to the full extent of an excuse to spew the hate on Pres Obama. I was on a site the other day where this one known loather wrote.."President Obama has brought shame to this country and on himself" .. I posted: "No he hasn't. I'm forever grateful President Obama is representing our Nation."

[There Is No Spoon]

This whole topic is incredibly stupid.

1) This Manning issue has nothing to do with President Obama - the debate is (or should be) about how we treat prisoners daily in this country.

2) Many of us think that the weekend prison shows on MSNBC that show people being put in tiny solitary boxes is torture.

Or, we could get caught up in the "us" versus "them" mentality and miss what's important here - how we treat prisoners in this country - in this case a prisoner who hasn't even been convicted yet (you know, innocent until proven guilty?)