CNN: Cooling system fails in another reactor at Japanese nuclear plant

[yowzayowzayowza]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03...tml?hpt=T1

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

* NEW: Officials detect the problem in reactor No. 2 hours Monday afternoon
* NEW: Edano says water levels are falling and pressure is building inside reactor No. 2
* NEW: U.S. Navy moves ships after detecting radiation 100 miles away
* A blast occurs at the Fukushima Daiichi's plant's No. 3 reactor building

We are in a critical period. Not good. Most ungood, actually.

Revised: 5:52 am est

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

* NEW: Officials think the problem in reactor No. 2 was caused by an earlier explosion
* NEW: Even outside the evacuation zone, fears about radiation leaks remain high
* Edano says water levels are falling and pressure is building inside reactor No. 2
* A blast occurs at the Fukushima Daiichi's plant's No. 3 reactor building

Revised 6:39 a.m. EDT concluding:

Edano has said there have been no leaks of radioactive material at any plants. Radioactive steam has been released intentionally to lessen growing pressure in the two Daiichi reactors -- in an amount authorities have described as minimal.

Despite such evidence, Noriyuki Shikata, a spokesman for Japan's prime minister, said Sunday the situation was "under control." His remarks came before Monday's explosion.

Cooke, also editor of Nuclear Intelligence Weekly for the atomic-energy community, said she's not convinced the Japanese are in control.

"The more they say they're in control, the more I sense things may be out of control," she said.

[nofurylike]

thank you for posting this, yowza^3.
dreadful. scary.

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
(this is the BBC live feed)

1028: Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin says there is no threat of a global nuclear disaster following the devastating earthquake and tsunami in Japan, Reuters reports.

[nofurylike]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar...e-coverage
(this is the Guardian UK live feed)

10.27am: Water levels have fallen far enough to partly expose fuel rods at the No 2 reactor at Fukushima Daiichi, according to the Jiji news agency.

[yowzayowzayowza]

If they didn't know #2 was stable, why weren't they already pumping the seawater?

The other two were in service 30-40yrs already. Dunno how old this one is, but there comes a point where another 5-10yrs service life tizn't worth the risk of a third situation. Drown it already!!

Another update, 6:39 a.m. EDT: #2 in service since '74. Hmmmmm....

[nofurylike]

(03-14-2011 04:45 AM)yowzayowzayowza Wrote:  If they didn't know #2 was stable, why weren't they already pumping the seawater?

The other two were in service 30-40yrs already. Dunno how old this one is, but there comes a point where another 5-10yrs service life tizn't worth the risk of a third situation. Drown it already!!

Another update, 6:39 a.m. EDT: #2 in service since '74. Hmmmmm....

i second that, yowza^3. it makes no sense!
"Drown it already!!" YES!!

[yowzayowzayowza]

Not good.

[nofurylike]

(03-14-2011 04:59 AM)yowzayowzayowza Wrote:  Not good.

i just saw this post, sorry.

wow. yes, "not good."

[yowzayowzayowza]

Radiation alert: U.S. ship contaminated 100 miles offshore

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42066534/ns/...iapacific/

The Fukushima Daiichi complex was due to be decommissioned in February but was given a new 10-year lease of life.

[nofurylike]

(03-14-2011 05:43 AM)yowzayowzayowza Wrote:  Radiation alert: U.S. ship contaminated 100 miles offshore

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42066534/ns/...iapacific/

The Fukushima Daiichi complex was due to be decommissioned in February but was given a new 10-year lease of life.

"but was given a new 10-year lease of life"
effin insanity!!

also, i read they moved the ships ...
more on that when i find it

[nofurylike]

Tests detect radioactivity on 17 U.S. Navy crew members in Japan
March 14, 2011

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...radiation/

(CNN) -- Tests detected low levels of radioactivity on 17 U.S. Navy helicopter crew members when they returned to the USS Ronald Reagan after conducting disaster relief missions in Japan, the military said Monday.

No further contamination was detected after the crew members washed with soap and water, the Navy said.

In addition, the Navy said the U.S. 7th Fleet has temporarily repositioned its ships and planes away from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant after detecting low level contamination in the air and on its planes in the area, the Navy said.

-snip-

###

[yowzayowzayowza]

Ug. I must harvest some zedlets. Be back later. Thx for all the links!!!

[nofurylike]

(03-14-2011 06:11 AM)yowzayowzayowza Wrote:  Ug. I must harvest some zedlets. Be back later. Thx for all the links!!!

thank you for all the co-processing, yowza^3!!


that's great: "harvest some zedlets"!

[nofurylike]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar...e-coverage

10.50am: The Guardian's science correspondent, Ian Sample, writes that the first report from Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency this morning described a rise in radioactivity around the Fukushima nuclear power station when compared to Sunday's levels.

-snip-

The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency report http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/ that at 1.10am local time on Monday, engineers had to stop pumping water into reactors one and three at Fukushima because seawater pits ran dry. Injection of water in the reactor 3 - the one that uses a plutonium mix fuel - restarted at 3.20am. They give no further details of the situation at reactor 1.

###

[yowzayowzayowza]

(03-14-2011 04:57 AM)nofurylike Wrote:  ... engineers had to stop pumping water into reactors one and three at Fukushima because seawater pits ran dry.

[nofurylike]

(03-14-2011 05:00 AM)yowzayowzayowza Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 04:57 AM)nofurylike Wrote:  ... engineers had to stop pumping water into reactors one and three at Fukushima because seawater pits ran dry.

yes!!



wow

[yowzayowzayowza]

Officials quickly worked to pump seawater into reactor No. 2, as they have been doing at reactors No. 1 and No. 3, officials said.

At one point, the fuel in the pump that was being used ran low when personnel left it unattended, officials said. Some of the water surrounding the fuel rods burned off, exposing them, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said.

Nuclear meltdown in the balance, and we run outa gas.

eta: This update to the CNN story in the 1st post has lost the conclusion by Cooke.

[nofurylike]

dupe. deleted post.

[yowzayowzayowza]

http://democratsforprogress.com/forum/sh...p?tid=3823

It now requires login to access.

[nofurylike]

(03-14-2011 05:13 AM)yowzayowzayowza Wrote:  http://democratsforprogress.com/forum/sh...p?tid=3823

It now requires login to access.

thank you!
i will delete that.

[nofurylike]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar...e-coverage

11.03am: Kyodo News has reported in the last five minutes that the fuel rods at the No 2 reactor at Fukushima Daiichi are now fully exposed

[nofurylike]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar...e-coverage

The rods are usually submerged in several metres of water to stop them overheating. Water level gauges at reactors 1 and 3 also suggest that fuel rods are partially exposed, but engineers said pressure readings from the reactors conflict with this and that the water gauges may be faulty. Workers are trying to circulate seawater around all three reactors to keep them cool. Serious melting of fuel rods inside any of the reactors could block the circulation of water.

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1125: Worrying news, this: The operators of the damaged Fukushima nuclear plant say it's possible that cooling water at one of the reactors has evaporated, Reuters reports. The company says it can't rule out the possibility that the nuclear fuel rods in Number 2 reactor were now exposed and could be at risk of meltdown.

[yowzayowzayowza]

[nofurylike]

(03-14-2011 05:34 AM)yowzayowzayowza Wrote:  

yep.

[nofurylike]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar...e-coverage

11.26am: The International Atomic Energy Authority website appears to have suffered a meltdown amid a surge in traffic, Ian Sample has just told me. Ian says their back-up system is working fine though: you can find all their announcements on the Japanese nuclear crisis on their Facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/iaeaorg

(note: they do not seem to be updating there)

[nofurylike]

Nuclear fuel rods fully exposed at Japan reactor - Jiji
Mar 14, 2011 7:00am EDT

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/1...3720110314

(Reuters) - Nuclear fuel rods at a quake-stricken Japanese nuclear reactor are now fully exposed ...

... meltdown of the fuel rods could not be ruled out.

###

it is a very brief piece.

[nofurylike]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar...e-coverage

11.38am: The Guardian will be staging a live Q&A
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bl...-disasters
with nuclear experts from 1pm, inviting readers to post their questions about the events at Fukushima Daiichi to a panel of scientists.

*(note: that is 1pm UK time. it is 11:45am there as i post this. eastern+4)

You can post your questions in advance here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bl...-disasters


"So far, we have Prof Gerry Thomas who holds a chair in molecular pathology at Imperial College London. She will answer questions on the effects of radiation exposure. We also hope to have a nuclear engineer and nuclear physicist who can talk about what is happening at site .... "

[nofurylike]

yowza^3, thank you for this thread. mind-blowing.
i have to go for a short while. back soon.

if you're off by then, thank you for the camaraderie in this scary watch. be well.

chanting dancing drumming praying ....

Japan

[jaxx]

#
1229: A major explosion is unlikely at Fukushima's Number 2 reactor, Kyodo news agency quotes a government spokesman as saying, adding that seawater is being pumped in to stabilise it.

This becomes more unreal as the reactors fail one by one. I read that losing water being pumped in may mean the pipes (I'm sure there is a better word for that, but get my meaning) may be compromised.....leaking. Something is happening and I wonder just how much they really know about what is actually going on.....are they getting in there to look? Are there cameras to show live feedback on the current status inside?

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-14-2011 06:53 AM)jaxx Wrote:  This becomes more unreal as the reactors fail one by one. I read that losing water being pumped in may mean the pipes (I'm sure there is a better word for that, but get my meaning) may be compromised.....leaking. Something is happening and I wonder just how much they really know about what is actually going on.....are they getting in there to look? Are there cameras to show live feedback on the current status inside?

[jaxx]

(03-14-2011 07:33 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 06:53 AM)jaxx Wrote:  This becomes more unreal as the reactors fail one by one. I read that losing water being pumped in may mean the pipes (I'm sure there is a better word for that, but get my meaning) may be compromised.....leaking. Something is happening and I wonder just how much they really know about what is actually going on.....are they getting in there to look? Are there cameras to show live feedback on the current status inside?

TINS that about sums it up.

[nofurylike]

(03-14-2011 06:53 AM)jaxx Wrote:  #
1229: A major explosion is unlikely at Fukushima's Number 2 reactor, Kyodo news agency quotes a government spokesman as saying, adding that seawater is being pumped in to stabilise it.

This becomes more unreal as the reactors fail one by one. I read that losing water being pumped in may mean the pipes (I'm sure there is a better word for that, but get my meaning) may be compromised.....leaking. Something is happening and I wonder just how much they really know about what is actually going on.....are they getting in there to look? Are there cameras to show live feedback on the current status inside?

jaxx

it is unreal.
very good questions. i wonder.
one bit i read said something about once they use salt water, at such high temperatures, it can corrode the pipes very quickly, leading to leaks. i wonder.....

it is awful.
also, as you will see upthread, they already said the cooling system shut down completely, and the fuel rods are "fully exposed."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/1...3720110314

so, they are saying different things ....

[jaxx]

(03-14-2011 07:38 AM)nofurylike Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 06:53 AM)jaxx Wrote:  #
1229: A major explosion is unlikely at Fukushima's Number 2 reactor, Kyodo news agency quotes a government spokesman as saying, adding that seawater is being pumped in to stabilise it.

This becomes more unreal as the reactors fail one by one. I read that losing water being pumped in may mean the pipes (I'm sure there is a better word for that, but get my meaning) may be compromised.....leaking. Something is happening and I wonder just how much they really know about what is actually going on.....are they getting in there to look? Are there cameras to show live feedback on the current status inside?

jaxx

it is unreal.
very good questions. i wonder.
one bit i read said something about once they use salt water, at such high temperatures, it can corrode the pipes very quickly, leading to leaks. i wonder.....

it is awful.
also, as you will see upthread, they already said the cooling system shut down completely, and the fuel rods are "fully exposed."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/1...3720110314

so, they are saying different things ....

Hi nofurylike

I don't think they know what to say other than repeating what was said before the other explosions happened. This has to be the nightmare from hell for the operators of the reactors. I know they are trying.

[nofurylike]

(03-14-2011 07:56 AM)jaxx Wrote:  Hi nofurylike

I don't think they know what to say other than repeating what was said before the other explosions happened. This has to be the nightmare from hell for the operators of the reactors. I know they are trying.

hi jaxx!

you have a point. and when i think how no one really knows what to expect - and they have all been hearing hype from that industry, from the start - i get what you're saying. i know you're right that they are trying.
"This has to be the nightmare from hell ... " yes.
and their own lives are right out there on the line, and they're staying in the battle. so i must give them credit due.

wow, ah?

[nofurylike]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar...e-coverage

1.35pm: Here's a summary of events so far today:

• A "core meltdown" might have occurred at reactor 2 Fukushima Daiichi. NHK World reports, as fears grow over the safety of the nuclear plant continues. Fuel rods are reportedly fully exposed. The nuclear and industrial safety agency (NISA) has tried to circulate the coolant by steam instead of electricity, but NHK reported that attempts to lower the temperature inside the reactor chamber have not worked well. NISA is reportedly also considering opening a hole in the reactor housing building to release hydrogen generated by the exposed fuel rods.

-snip-

###

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-14-2011 07:43 AM)nofurylike Wrote:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar...e-coverage

1.35pm: Here's a summary of events so far today:

• A "core meltdown" might have occurred at reactor 2 Fukushima Daiichi. NHK World reports, as fears grow over the safety of the nuclear plant continues. Fuel rods are reportedly fully exposed. The nuclear and industrial safety agency (NISA) has tried to circulate the coolant by steam instead of electricity, but NHK reported that attempts to lower the temperature inside the reactor chamber have not worked well. NISA is reportedly also considering opening a hole in the reactor housing building to release hydrogen generated by the exposed fuel rods.

-snip-

###

They are clearly overmatched here. These reactors are falling like dominoes and these fools seem to be in reactionary mode.

How does this shit happen? Perhaps the theory that #3 blew it's top and damaged cooling lines to #2 is the right one, I don't know. But to hear nothing but talk of #1 & #3 & then suddenly to hear that #2 may already have melted down is FAR from comforting. I hope the containment vessels are as good as they say they are.

[nofurylike]

(03-14-2011 07:48 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  They are clearly overmatched here. These reactors are falling like dominoes and these fools seem to be in reactionary mode.

How does this shit happen? Perhaps the theory that #3 blew it's top and damaged cooling lines to #2 is the right one, I don't know. But to hear nothing but talk of #1 & #3 & then suddenly to hear that #2 may already have melted down is FAR from comforting. I hope the containment vessels are as good as they say they are.

i agree, TINS.
and more so about: "I hope the containment vessels are as good as they say they are."

[nofurylike]

(03-14-2011 07:48 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  They are clearly overmatched here. These reactors are falling like dominoes and these fools seem to be in reactionary mode.

How does this shit happen? Perhaps the theory that #3 blew it's top and damaged cooling lines to #2 is the right one, I don't know. But to hear nothing but talk of #1 & #3 & then suddenly to hear that #2 may already have melted down is FAR from comforting. I hope the containment vessels are as good as they say they are.

you called it, TINS:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1426: Mr Goto says his greatest fear is that blasts at number 3 and number 1 reactors may have damaged the steel casing of the containment vessel designed to stop radioactive material escaping into the atmosphere. More to follow.

###

[nofurylike]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar...e-coverage

1347: Toshihiro Bannai, a director at the Japanese Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, tells BBC Radio 4's World at One programme that the situation at the Fukushima plant is not good, but it is "stable".

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-14-2011 07:50 AM)nofurylike Wrote:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar...e-coverage

1347: Toshihiro Bannai, a director at the Japanese Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, tells BBC Radio 4's World at One programme that the situation at the Fukushima plant is not good, but it is "stable".

No, I really do

[nofurylike]

(03-14-2011 07:51 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 07:50 AM)nofurylike Wrote:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar...e-coverage

1347: Toshihiro Bannai, a director at the Japanese Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, tells BBC Radio 4's World at One programme that the situation at the Fukushima plant is not good, but it is "stable".

No, I really do

ditto

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1354: Asked if there is a danger of a meltdown at the Fukushima plant, nuclear safety expert Toshihiro Bannai adds: "On units one and three there is a possibility they are partially damaged in the core. However at this point, monitoring indications doesn't indicate damage of the core."

another
one report says the fuel rods are already exposed, then they say this?!

[nofurylike]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/201...alert-live

Justin McCurry, the Guardian's Tokyo correspondent, emails to say the water level inside the No. 2 reactor at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant has recovered to a level of about two metres, according to Kyodo News. The rods were fully exposed for about two and a half hours, according to Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency.

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1415: Prof Richard Wakeford adds: "The other thing authorities [in Japan] will be considering is the issuing of stable iodine tablets to block the intake of radioactive iodine which accumulates in the thyroid, and which is particularly problematic if it happens in young children."

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1422: Japanese engineer Masashi Goto, who helped design the containment vessel for Fukushima's reactor core, says the design was not enough to withstand earthquakes or tsunamis and the plant's builders, Toshiba, knew this. More on Mr Goto's remarks to follow.

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-14-2011 08:26 AM)nofurylike Wrote:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1422: Japanese engineer Masashi Goto, who helped design the containment vessel for Fukushima's reactor core, says the design was not enough to withstand earthquakes or tsunamis and the plant's builders, Toshiba, knew this. More on Mr Goto's remarks to follow.

[Treestar]

(03-14-2011 08:26 AM)nofurylike Wrote:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1422: Japanese engineer Masashi Goto, who helped design the containment vessel for Fukushima's reactor core, says the design was not enough to withstand earthquakes or tsunamis and the plant's builders, Toshiba, knew this. More on Mr Goto's remarks to follow.

Surely the area was a known earthquake zone?

We have nuke plants around here, but I don't mind it as this area is not prone to anything like that. But if it were!

[RoyGBiv]

(03-14-2011 10:38 AM)Treestar Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 08:26 AM)nofurylike Wrote:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1422: Japanese engineer Masashi Goto, who helped design the containment vessel for Fukushima's reactor core, says the design was not enough to withstand earthquakes or tsunamis and the plant's builders, Toshiba, knew this. More on Mr Goto's remarks to follow.

Surely the area was a known earthquake zone?

We have nuke plants around here, but I don't mind it as this area is not prone to anything like that. But if it were!

I'm starting to think we're seeing some mistranslations. This isn't uncommon, particularly with the various Asian - English languages. Concepts that are understood contextually in the original language need more words to explain in the English.

In this particular case, it's known that those plants were not built to withstand a quake *as massive* as the one that struck nor a tsunami that would make its way inland with that kind of force. The reason for this is that the potential size of a quake even possible along that section of the North-American/Pacific plate subduction zone was grossly underestimated, thus the potential impact of a tsunami was underestimated.

[jaxx]

#
1426: Mr Goto says his greatest fear is that blasts at number 3 and number 1 reactors may have damaged the steel casing of the containment vessel designed to stop radioactive material escaping into the atmosphere. More to follow.

#
1431: More from Japanese nuclear engineer Masashi Goto: He say that as the reactor uses mox (mixed oxide) fuel, the melting point is lower than that of conventional fuel. Should a meltdown and an explosion occur, he says, plutonium could be spread over an area up to twice as far as estimated for a conventional nuclear fuel explosion. The next 24 hours are critical, he says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-14-2011 08:38 AM)jaxx Wrote:  #
1426: Mr Goto says his greatest fear is that blasts at number 3 and number 1 reactors may have damaged the steel casing of the containment vessel designed to stop radioactive material escaping into the atmosphere. More to follow.

#
1431: More from Japanese nuclear engineer Masashi Goto: He say that as the reactor uses mox (mixed oxide) fuel, the melting point is lower than that of conventional fuel. Should a meltdown and an explosion occur, he says, plutonium could be spread over an area up to twice as far as estimated for a conventional nuclear fuel explosion. The next 24 hours are critical, he says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

[nofurylike]

(03-14-2011 08:42 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 08:38 AM)jaxx Wrote:  #
1426: Mr Goto says his greatest fear is that blasts at number 3 and number 1 reactors may have damaged the steel casing of the containment vessel designed to stop radioactive material escaping into the atmosphere. More to follow.

#
1431: More from Japanese nuclear engineer Masashi Goto: He say that as the reactor uses mox (mixed oxide) fuel, the melting point is lower than that of conventional fuel. Should a meltdown and an explosion occur, he says, plutonium could be spread over an area up to twice as far as estimated for a conventional nuclear fuel explosion. The next 24 hours are critical, he says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

from up thread:

"1422: Japanese engineer Masashi Goto, who helped design the containment vessel for Fukushima's reactor core, says the design was not enough to withstand earthquakes or tsunamis and the plant's builders, Toshiba, knew this."

(emphasis mine)

it seems this man ought to know.
and it seems, imho, that he might be having a guilt crisis.

but he is not ignorant.

[nofurylike]

oops, dupe!

***

plutonium .....

[nofurylike]

i must head off now.
back asap.

and gratitude, DFP Family!!

chanting dancing drumming praying ...
Japan

[jaxx]

#
1521: Fears of a partial meltdown at the Fukushima plant would appear to be growing, as Kyodo news agency reports that fuel rods in number 2 reactor are again "fully exposed".

I'd comment if I knew what to say.

[yowzayowzayowza]

NEW: Japan has asked the U.S. for cooling equipment, the NRC chairman says
...
Edano announced that officials had gotten the problem under control and resolved it. Then, hours later, a new problem sent the water levels plummeting again and left the fuel rods fully exposed.

A valve that was supposed to be open, to allow the heat and steam to escape, was closed. That caused pressure to build up and water to evaporate, Tokyo Electric Power Company announced. The company, which owns the nuclear plant, said it should be able to locate and open the valve.

While steam was being released from reactor No. 2, officials took readings of the radiation level just outside the power plant's front gate and found it to be twice the maximum level previously detected, though only briefly.

CNN is certainly editing this story as the day goes.

[yowzayowzayowza]

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

* NEW: Sea water is being pumped into three reactors at Fukushima Daiichi
* NEW: "It cannot necessarily be called a stable situation," an official says
* NEW: Fuel rods may have been exposed "for significant periods of time," an expert says

[jaxx]

#
2308: An explosion is heard at Fukushima's second reactor, the Kyodo news agency reports.

#
2311: The news agency said the blast was heard at 0610 local time on Tuesday (2110 GMT Monday). No other details were immediately announced.

#
2316: Kyodo now says that the suppression pool may have been damaged at the second reactor.

Holy shit!

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-14-2011 05:20 PM)jaxx Wrote:  #
2308: An explosion is heard at Fukushima's second reactor, the Kyodo news agency reports.

#
2311: The news agency said the blast was heard at 0610 local time on Tuesday (2110 GMT Monday). No other details were immediately announced.

#
2316: Kyodo now says that the suppression pool may have been damaged at the second reactor.

Holy shit!

Not surprised that the #2 building also exploded given today's events, but I'm not sure what that last bulletin means.

[jaxx]

It was iffy with the water level going up and down.....they must have been working frantically to try to keep it cooled.

[jaxx]

From WaPo email

----------------------------------------
Breaking News Alert: Japanese officials: Explosion heard at damaged nuclear reactor
March 14, 2011 7:21:05 PM
----------------------------------------

An explosion was heard at 6:10 a.m. Tuesday at a damaged reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex, the Japanese nuclear safety agency said.

Officials said earlier that four out of five pumps being used to flood the unit 2 reactor had failed and that the other pump had briefly stopped working, hastening the meltdown of fuel rods that at one point were fully exposed. Two explosions occurred in other reactors at the complex, one on Monday and one on Saturday.

[yowzayowzayowza]

Possible causes of the explosions? fuel assembly failure? gas accumulations? Haven't seen a good overview of that yet....

eta: listening to it again, sounds more like gas.

[jaxx]

#
2333: More details on the reported blast at Fukushima's reactor 2. The explosion is feared to have damaged the reactor's pressure-suppression system, Kyodo says. It adds that "radiation tops legal limit" after the explosion.

[RoyGBiv]

Somewhat off-topic, but I really wish news agencies would start using Universal time exclusively when reporting anything non-local. And I'd support a constitutional amendment to prevent news outlets from referring to the general time of day (morning, afternoon, evening).

Some would have a bit of trouble adjusting, yes, but they would adjust, and it would cut down tremendously on this confusion that is generated about when things happened and in what order.

[nofurylike]

Clarifying Japan's Nuclear Reactor Disaster

http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/n...saster.pdf

*

ABCs of Japan's Nuclear Reactor Disaster

http://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear_power/nucl...aster.html

*

All Things Nuclear

http://allthingsnuclear.org/tagged/Japan_nuclear

***

rushing through right now, needing to catch up on what is happening. thank you all for keeping the information coming here!

DFP family

[There Is No Spoon]

"
March 14, 2011, 11:07 PM EDT

...

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said the vessel containing the radioactive core of the plant’s No. 2 reactor was damaged in a blast today and radiation levels could harm public health. Sea water is being pumped to cool the three reactors and the fire at a fourth unit wasn’t due to any internal problem at that reactor, Edano said.

Asia’s biggest utility said the containment chamber of the No 2 reactor may be damaged after blast and radiation leakage is possible. The explosion occurred around 6:14 a.m. local time near a suppression chamber that controls pressure in the reactor core, and its cause is being investigated, Tokyo Electric said.

Radiation Level

As of 10.22 a.m. local time, 400 millisieverts of radiation were detected at the No. 2 and No. 3 reactors, Edano said. That’s 20 times the annual limit for nuclear industry employees and uranium miners, according to the World Nuclear Association. A radiation dose of 100 millisieverts a year is the lowest level at which any increase in cancer is evident, the London-based WNA said on its website."

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-03...rsens.html

[yowzayowzayowza]

[nofurylike]

Factbox: Airlines' response to Japan quake, radiation fears
Mar 15, 2011

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/1...HW20110315

(Reuters) - Following are responses from airlines from several countries following Japan's earthquake and tsunami and subsequent crisis at a nuclear power complex.

Japan's government warned that radioactive levels had become "significantly" higher around an earthquake-stricken nuclear power plant on Tuesday

-snip-

UNITED STATES

-- Two major U.S. airlines with big transpacific operations, American Airlines and Delta Air Lines Inc, said that they were not canceling flights and that operations were continuing as normal.

-- Boeing Co said on Tuesday it had no plans to evacuate employees from Japan and expected no major impact on suppliers after Japan's earthquake.

-snip-

###

[nofurylike]

Fears of health risks rise in Japan as radiation increases, residents warned to stay indoors
By Marilynn Marchione (Canadian Press)
March 15, 2011

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadia...Id=6250886

Fears about health risks rose dramatically in Japan Tuesday with news of a greater radiation release and renewed warnings to remaining residents within 30 kilometres (19 miles) to stay indoors.

Japanese officials said that more radiation was released at a nuclear plant disastrously damaged by last week's tsunami. Prime Minister Naoto Kan said radiation had spread from four reactors.

"The level seems very high, and there is still a very high risk of more radiation coming out," he said.

Thyroid cancer is the most immediate risk, and the Japanese government made plans to distribute potassium iodide pills to prevent it. Worse case scenarios — lots of radioactive fallout — can lead to other cancers years later.

-snip-

###

[jaxx]

I am trying to piece information together.
#'s 1 2 & 3 have had explosions.
#4 (which was "down" when the crisis hit) had a fire in the concrete that has been put out.
#4 is overheating...so down is never down, and cooling it becomes necessary.
#'s 5 & 6 are in the same position as #4 (they were also "down") but need cooling.

Anyone keeping up....is this where we are at the moment?

[nofurylike]

(03-15-2011 03:08 AM)jaxx Wrote:  I am trying to piece information together.
#'s 1 2 & 3 have had explosions.
#4 (which was "down" when the crisis hit) had a fire in the concrete that has been put out.
#4 is overheating...so down is never down, and cooling it becomes necessary.
#'s 5 & 6 are in the same position as #4 (they were also "down") but need cooling.

Anyone keeping up....is this where we are at the moment?

jaxx!

yes, i have the same number as you do. wild wild wild

a quote from an article i am about to post on this thread:

"It is likely that the level of radiation increased sharply due to a fire at Unit 4," Edano said. "Now we are talking about levels that can damage human health. These are readings taken near the area where we believe the releases are happening. Far away, the levels should be lower."

He said another reactor whose containment building exploded Monday had not contributed greatly to the increased radiation. Edano said that reactor, and another, Unit 3, had stabilized but the status of Unit 2 was unclear.

Temperatures in two other reactors, units 5 and 6, were slightly elevated, Edano said.

###

[nofurylike]

Radiation level soars after Japan nuke plant fire
By Eric Talmadge and Shino Yuasa
"8 minutes ago"
March 15, 2011

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110315/ap_o...earthquake

-snip-

Japanese officials told the International Atomic Energy Agency that the reactor fire was in a storage pond and that "radioactivity is being released directly into the atmosphere." Long after the fire was extinguished, a Japanese official said the pool, where used nuclear fuel is kept cool, might be boiling.

"We cannot deny the possibility of water boiling" in the pool, said Hidehiko Nishiyama, an official with the economy ministry, which oversees nuclear safety.

-snip-

If the water boils, it could evaporate, exposing the rods. The fuel rods are encased in safety containers meant to prevent them from resuming nuclear reactions, nuclear officials said, downplaying the risk of that happening.

But they acknowledged that there could have been damage to the containers. They also confirmed that the walls of the storage pool building were damaged.

-snip-

###

[jaxx]

I remember watching Life After People on the History Channel. One thing that stuck with me was showing a huge pool of spent rods....and them starting to cook after the electricity to cool them was stopped.

Found this about the scene:

Nuclear Meltdown - Super-heated steam pours out of nuclear power plants as spent nuclear fuel boils the water in cooling tanks. Buildings buckle under the intense heat. As radioactive fallout spreads, nearby forests are decimated. Pine trees turn red as chlorophyll is damaged.

Read more: http://ngccommunity.nationalgeographic.c...z1GfIWcNJ1

Don't know why, but I have remembered this, and the pool of rods.

[nofurylike]

(03-15-2011 05:04 AM)jaxx Wrote:  I remember watching Life After People on the History Channel. One thing that stuck with me was showing a huge pool of spent rods....and them starting to cook after the electricity to cool them was stopped.

Found this about the scene:

Nuclear Meltdown - Super-heated steam pours out of nuclear power plants as spent nuclear fuel boils the water in cooling tanks. Buildings buckle under the intense heat. As radioactive fallout spreads, nearby forests are decimated. Pine trees turn red as chlorophyll is damaged.

Read more: http://ngccommunity.nationalgeographic.c...z1GfIWcNJ1

Don't know why, but I have remembered this, and the pool of rods.

omg, wow ...
thank you for telling me about that, jaxx! i had heard a vague reference to that, once, but never realized what i'd heard. wow.

yes, those pools are the storage systems of contention we hear and hear, and argue and argue about.

now, it is being tested out, live.

back to chanting dancing drumming praying ..........

Japan.

o my

[sandnsea]

(03-15-2011 05:04 AM)jaxx Wrote:  I remember watching Life After People on the History Channel. One thing that stuck with me was showing a huge pool of spent rods....and them starting to cook after the electricity to cool them was stopped.

Found this about the scene:

Nuclear Meltdown - Super-heated steam pours out of nuclear power plants as spent nuclear fuel boils the water in cooling tanks. Buildings buckle under the intense heat. As radioactive fallout spreads, nearby forests are decimated. Pine trees turn red as chlorophyll is damaged.

Read more: http://ngccommunity.nationalgeographic.c...z1GfIWcNJ1

Don't know why, but I have remembered this, and the pool of rods.

Aw geez, I never even thought of that. It's always those spent fuel rods that are the final no-go for me though. Thinking about the lack of electricity to keep them safe though, something I never thought of. I just don't see how we can be so self-centered and short-sighted. Somebody needs to make a movie, that's the only way people ever understand anything anymore.

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1049: Jack Edney in Chiyodaku, Tokyo writes: "Almost all of my friends here in the capital have left Tokyo with their families. They are scared about radiation reaching Tokyo and also many of their parents' companies are taking them either down south, or out of Japan altogether. School has been cancelled and it is all really slow here. I really do hope that I won't have to leave as well."

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1107: Prime Minister Naoto Kan has strongly criticised the Tokyo Electric Power Company for its handling of the Fukushima No 1 nuclear plant, according to Japan's Kyodo news. "The TV reported an explosion. But nothing was said to the premier's office for about an hour," a Kyodo News reporter overheard Mr Kan saying during a meeting with company executives. "What the hell is going on?"

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1214: Mayu Iwakami, a resident of a suburb of Sendai, tells the BBC World Service that her and her family and neighbours are "try[ing] not to be in a state of hysteria until we actually get the information regarding radiation and a possible evacuation. Until then, we try to keep calm and carry on."

[There Is No Spoon]

Bunch of Tweets seem to be saying that this nuclear crisis is now rated at a level 6 of 7 which would make it the 2nd worst nuclear event to date.

WSJ is reporting that radiation levels are stabilized and that they seem to have things under control for the time being. Fingers crossed.

[nofurylike]

(03-15-2011 06:30 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  Bunch of Tweets seem to be saying that this nuclear crisis is now rated at a level 6 of 7 which would make it the 2nd worst nuclear event to date.

WSJ is reporting that radiation levels are stabilized and that they seem to have things under control for the time being. Fingers crossed.

6 of 7? o my ....

but thank you so much for posting that about "radiation levels are stabilized," TINS!!
yes yes yes! "Fingers crossed"!!
they had said these last 24 hours would be most critical. and they've held through that, at great sacrifice to the workers'.

Japan

[jaxx]

(03-15-2011 06:30 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  Bunch of Tweets seem to be saying that this nuclear crisis is now rated at a level 6 of 7 which would make it the 2nd worst nuclear event to date.

WSJ is reporting that radiation levels are stabilized and that they seem to have things under control for the time being. Fingers crossed.

I saw that too, thinking it is coming from France.

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1255: The US Federal Aviation Administration says it is prepared to re-route flights to Japan if the nuclear crisis there worsens, Reuters reports.

[A Fool and his Money]

To Jaxx --

I believe that summary is about right, with a few points to clarify.

Here's MY UNDERSTANDING -- and I'd welcome any further clarifications ...

Re: cooling of the 4, 5 and 6 -- which were offline -- my understanding is that the overheating (and fire) at #4 involved SPENT fuel, not core fuel. SPENT fuel can be cooled just by sitting in a pond of water. Some of that water had evaporated off at #4, exposing the spent fuel to air. Once exposed, the spent fuel heated up and started the fire.

CORE fuel remains extremely hot for weeks to months after "shut down" (which happened at the time of the quake) -- still dissipating "decay heat" -- and the cooling water needs to be continually circulated (and ideally cooled.) If core fuel sits in stagnant water for very long, the water heats up very rapidly and begins to boil.

This is when problems begin -- pressure builds up, water boils off, fuel rods are exposed, melting begins, hydrogen is created that can cause explosions ... all the major problems that 3 Dai-ichi reactors 1, 2 and 3 have experienced.

The good news is that reactors 1, 2 and 3 ARE cooling down, albeit slowly. Each day that passes without a serious meltdown brings us closer to a much safer situation, described next.

At a certain point, enough heat dissipates that even a full meltdown would become much less dangerous. That's because the core -- while still hot enough to melt -- no longer gets hot enough to burn thru the containment structure floor (aka "The China Syndrome.")

I believe we're several days away from that essential threshold.

If crews can stabilize things and get us beyond that threshold, cooling and venting would continue for several months.

Does this description capture things accurately? Anybody?

re: RE: CNN: Cooling system fails in another reactor at Japanese nuclear plant
I am trying to piece information together.
#'s 1 2 & 3 have had explosions.
#4 (which was "down" when the crisis hit) had a fire in the concrete that has been put out.
#4 is overheating...so down is never down, and cooling it becomes necessary.
#'s 5 & 6 are in the same position as #4 (they were also "down") but need cooling.

Anyone keeping up....is this where we are at the moment?

[yowzayowzayowza]

(03-15-2011 04:15 PM)A Fool and his Money Wrote:  That's because the core -- while still hot enough to melt -- no longer gets hot enough to burn thru the containment structure floor (aka "The China Syndrome.")

Melted material will first pool in the reactor vessel, failing that the containment vessel, failing that the concrete structure. Each layer is more open to the environment. Three Mile Island's fuel melted, but did not breach the reactor vessel. I would not be betting for a similar outcome X 3 from this situation, so far.

Least thatz my arithmetic.

[jaxx]

Thanks AFAHM, that is good information.

#
2314: A spokesman for the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) has said: "At around 0545 today, our employee carrying batteries to the control room discovered smoke billowing from the building of reactor 4 [at Fukushima Daiichi]."

Reactor building....or spent rods building?

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-15-2011 05:52 PM)jaxx Wrote:  Thanks AFAHM, that is good information.

#
2314: A spokesman for the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) has said: "At around 0545 today, our employee carrying batteries to the control room discovered smoke billowing from the building of reactor 4 [at Fukushima Daiichi]."

Reactor building....or spent rods building?

I think they're storing spent rods in reactor building #4.

[yowzayowzayowza]

n/t..

[jaxx]

#
0003: A new fire that broke out inside reactor 4 at the Fukushima Daaichi nuclear plant, which was damaged in Friday's earthquake and tsunami, appears to be out. This was the second time in two days that the reactor where spent nuclear rods were being kept caught fire. Workers at the plant are pumping sea-water through several of the plant's reactors in an effort to cool and stabilise them. Japanese media reports say radiation levels at the reactors remain too high for workers there to approach them. Japan's Prime Minister, Naoto Kan, and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) have expressed concern and called for the provision of more timely, and accurate information.


So it was the spent rods again. I'm glad the fire is out, for now.

edit to add:
#
2359: Back to the ongoing crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant: the Kyodo news agency reports that engineers are spraying boric acid to prevent "recriticality" - presumably, the resumption of a self-sustaining nuclear chain reaction - at reactor 4.

[jaxx]

I'm trying to remember if #4 has spent rods on the ground level or above the reactor level. It's different for each of the reactors.

[jaxx]

Just reported:

#
0146 : Tepco says the reactor 3 at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant has been emitting white smoke for about 45 minutes, Kyodo News reports. The plant's reactor 4 was the one where a fire broke out earlier this morning, Tepco said.

Crap!

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-15-2011 08:01 PM)jaxx Wrote:  Just reported:

#
0146 : Tepco says the reactor 3 at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant has been emitting white smoke for about 45 minutes, Kyodo News reports. The plant's reactor 4 was the one where a fire broke out earlier this morning, Tepco said.

Crap!

Honestly, is this not starting to look like a deadly game of whack-a-mole?

Unbelievable.

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

0530: The US State Department tweets: "For concerns about a specific U.S. citizen in #Japan, please call 1-888-407-4747 or email JapanEmergencyUSC@state.gov. Http://go.usa.gov/4Ax."

also has a statement by Secretary of State Clinton:

SECRETARY CLINTON: And I want to, on behalf of the United States, express both our condolence and our solidarity with the government and people of Japan. Japan is always a very generous donor to any disaster anywhere in the world, and today, the world comes together to support Japan in its hour of need. And the minister and I will be discussing a lot of the specifics that we are working on together.

###

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

0816: Prices for private jets have leapt up as thousands of people trying to get out of Japan put in orders, Reuters reports. "I got a request yesterday to fly 14 people from Tokyo to Hong Kong, 5 hour 5 minutes trip. They did not care about price," Reuters quotes Jackie Wu of Hong Kong Jet as saying.

11 minutes later:

0827: Following that item on the demand for private jets, Reuters is also running a story on the flight of foreign bankers from Tokyo. This despite a denial from the Tokyo-based International Bankers Association that any exodus was under way.

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

there are good videos and streaming live updates at this live BBC site.

[HamdenRice]

Not trying to drive traffic to a different site, but there is a really informative series of posts by a guy on DailyKos who is actually a nuclear engineer and has operated nuclear power plants. His main point is that the hydrogen explosions were extremely energetic. The plants that house the reactors are extremely complicated machines full of electronic equipment, gages, valves, pipes, etc., and although most of the reactor containers are in tact (except possibly for one), there is nothing left to operate them with. They are trying to carry out an operation that would be EXTREMELY difficult in an operable reactor, but they are basically trying to work in a debris field, blind with no gauges or electronics, using little more than fire hoses spewing seawater.

The reactor core is usually surrounded by ultra clean water that does not react to the core and the water itself does not become radioactive for long. The introduction of sea water introduces salt and the rest of the ocean brew which is extremely reactive to the core and container at these temperatures and is full of impurities that will be irradiated and then spewed into the air as the steam is vented.

Lots of other good stuff by people who know a lot about nuclear power.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/14...ATED-2X%29

[yowzayowzayowza]

(03-16-2011 06:05 AM)HamdenRice Wrote:  They are trying to carry out an operation that would be EXTREMELY difficult in an operable reactor, but they are basically trying to work in a debris field, blind with no gauges or electronics, using little more than fire hoses spewing seawater.

They are obviously also not communicating the entirety of the situation to the public. Thx for the link.

[HamdenRice]

(03-16-2011 07:33 AM)yowzayowzayowza Wrote:  They are obviously also not communicating the entirety of the situation to the public. Thx for the link.

In the DailyKos thread I linked to, take a look at the satellite and other photos of the reactor buildings that experienced explosions. The nuke engineers are saying that the debris field you are looking down on is where the spent fuel pools, which themselves have to be cooled with circulating water are (were?).

I mean you look down and its just a destroyed building and that's the work environment they are trying to stop meltdown in. Another nuke engineer said at first that he didn't think that the explosion did as much damage to the floors under the pools which are part of the containment, but after seeing the pictures of the latest explosion changed his mind.

It's a very grim situation.

[jaxx]

Just home from work and trying to piece this together. I am so glad the people on this thread are keeping it up to date, it really helps. From what I have seen the workers were called off, the acceptable radiation rate was raised for them, and they went back to work. Brave souls, I wish them the best.

#
1440: Dr Sally Leivesley, a risk management advisor, says huge amounts are being asked of the "very fatigued" workers battling fires at the Fukushima site. "They've been asked by the emperor to give their all, and they will," she tells BBC News.

[jaxx]

#
1515: US Energy Secretary Steven Chu has just described events at the Fukushima plant as "appearing to be more serious than Three Mile Island". How much worse was not clear, he said, adding that it was very hard to tell how bad things were on the ground.

#
1516: Mr Chu said there were conflicting reports coming from Japan. The US teams who have travelled there are not only assisting the Japanese, but also ensuring that the US can secure its own measurements of what is happening, he said.

Very good Mr. Chu. Get the information. He's a smart man and I hope we hear more from him.

[sandnsea]

metric translations please.

BBC News says:

Levels as high as 400 millisieverts per hour have been registered at the plant, itself. A few hours of this kind of dose-level would cause radiation sickness. However, the level has generally been lower than one millisievert per hour. (A spinal X-ray delivers roughly one millisievert of radiation.)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12732015

I've read that we measure radiation in mrem.
http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/risk.htm

"The average person in the United States receives about 360 mrem every year whole body equivalent dose. This is mostly from natural sources of radiation, such as radon. (See Radiation and Us ).

In 1992, the average dose received by nuclear power workers in the United States was 300 mrem whole body equivalent in addition to their background dose."

So I'm trying to convert this into something consistent and useful.

http://www.stevequayle.com/ARAN/rad.conversion.html

[RoyGBiv]

400 millisieverts = 40,000 mrem

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=400+millisieverts

[sandnsea]

(03-16-2011 12:43 PM)RoyGBiv Wrote:  400 millisieverts = 40,000 mrem

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=400+millisieverts

So that's a lifetime dose. In a matter of minutes for those people, is that right?

http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/47028

[RoyGBiv]

(03-16-2011 12:59 PM)sandnsea Wrote:  

(03-16-2011 12:43 PM)RoyGBiv Wrote:  400 millisieverts = 40,000 mrem

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=400+millisieverts

So that's a lifetime dose. In a matter of minutes for those people, is that right?

http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/47028

I think it's fair to say it's fatal.

Thought, I don't know if we know precisely what levels humans have been exposed to in Japan. We just know what levels have been recorded at various times in specific places.

[jaxx]

I was just reading the tweets http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698 about the water drops at the plants. The radiation levels must be very high because they did fly-by's for the drops, not hovering for placement. Also said the choppers had lead shields on the bottom of them.

From a video on BBC the reactor area is a mess from the explosions. I shoulda done a screen shot.

[jaxx]

Found this pic, must be after the March 15th explosion, and there is a larger one at the link.




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12762381

[RoyGBiv]

(03-16-2011 08:04 PM)jaxx Wrote:  Found this pic, must be after the March 15th explosion, and there is a larger one at the link.




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12762381

This was in the NYT (online version) today as well and was captioned as a high altitude picture from, I think, today.

[nofurylike]

there is a new thread updating about this:

http://democratsforprogress.com/forum/sh...5#pid23175

thank you all, for all of this information!

[nofurylike]

there is a new thread updating about this:

http://democratsforprogress.com/forum/sh...0#pid23180

thank you all, for all of this information!

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
BBC live feed

0619: Government officials say spinach near the damaged Fukushima nuclear plant has been found to contain high radiation levels, Kyodo news agency reports.

[RoyGBiv]

(03-19-2011 12:30 AM)nofurylike Wrote:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
BBC live feed

0619: Government officials say spinach near the damaged Fukushima nuclear plant has been found to contain high radiation levels, Kyodo news agency reports.

I really, really, really want to make a Popeye joke.

Sorry. I resort to humor in the face of unimaginable tragedy.

[nofurylike]

(03-19-2011 01:18 AM)RoyGBiv Wrote:  

(03-19-2011 12:30 AM)nofurylike Wrote:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
BBC live feed

0619: Government officials say spinach near the damaged Fukushima nuclear plant has been found to contain high radiation levels, Kyodo news agency reports.

I really, really, really want to make a Popeye joke.

Sorry. I resort to humor in the face of unimaginable tragedy.

i have a similar response, giddy laughter, which your comment just brought out of me

and i must admit that when i first glanced at that entry on the live feed, Popeye popped into my mind too! great minds twist alike?

thanks, RoyGBiv

[There Is No Spoon]

(03-19-2011 01:18 AM)RoyGBiv Wrote:  

(03-19-2011 12:30 AM)nofurylike Wrote:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
BBC live feed

0619: Government officials say spinach near the damaged Fukushima nuclear plant has been found to contain high radiation levels, Kyodo news agency reports.

I really, really, really want to make a Popeye joke.

Sorry. I resort to humor in the face of unimaginable tragedy.

The kinda funny part is that Ann Culter actually believes that nuclear spinach is good for you.

[nofurylike]

(03-19-2011 07:35 AM)There Is No Spoon Wrote:  The kinda funny part is that Ann Culter actually believes that nuclear spinach is good for you.

wow. then there IS a market for it! send it over to her, Japan!!

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

0631: Officials say 3 or 4 kinds of farm produce have been found to be contaminated, reports Kyodo. Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano is reportedly due to talk about the contaminated food issue around 1600 local time(0700GMT).

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

0748: Water-spraying operations have resumed at the number 3 reactor at the Fukushima nuclear plant, NHK reports. AFP quotes Defence Minister Toshimi Kitazawa as saying: "Instead of dumping water in phases we would like to set up an operation that will allow us to continuously inject water." So far such efforts to cool the reactors at the stricken plant have taken place intermittently, AFP explains.

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

0829: The US Defense Department is preparing to dispatch an expert team trained to operate in areas contaminated with radiation, should the situation deteriorate at the Fukushima nuclear power plant, Yomiuri reports.

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

0902: Engineers have attached a power cable to a reactor at Fukushima nuclear plant but electricity has yet to be switched on, the nuclear safety agency said according to Reuters.

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

0907: Despite encouraging reports about progressing reconnecting power to cooling systems at the Fukushima plant, the BBC's Tim Willcox cautions that they are still nowhere near the process of restarting the pumps as it is unclear whether - given quake and tsunami damage - they even still work. Even if they do initially work, they could quickly short out.

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

0928: Jason Fullington in Tokyo tweets: "Latest news about Spinach and Milk already blown out of proportion by US media! They act as if it affects the whole country! #japan #wrong"

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1200: Power lines have been connected to the Fukushima nuclear plant's reactor 2 but electricity has not been restored yet, a spokesman for Japan's nuclear safety agency has said according to AFP. "If the power is turned on without checks it may malfunction. They are checking the facility now. If no problem is found at the facility today, the power will resume as early as tomorrow [Sunday]."

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1211: The UN nuclear watchdog the IAEA says Japan has ordered a halt to all sales of food products from Fukushima prefecture, Reuters reports. It comes after the chief cabinet secretary Yukio Edano said radiation levels in milk and spinach from the region of Fukushima nuclear plant exceeded safety standards - though the radiation levels recorded still pose no serious risk to human health.

[nofurylike]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

2258: Jun Morikawa in Tokyo writes: "Never was so much owed by so many to so few." Sir Winston Churchill praised those brave and noble soldiers who were at the time fighting the Battle of Britain. His famous speech applies to those few courageous folks (technicians, fire-fighters and Self-Defense Forces officers) fighting the nuclear crisis at the Fukushima plant. This is a true story of the Mission Impossible in Japan now. No one could ever possibly be able to find proper word to thank them for their incredible determination and commitment to save the nation at their own peril. We are unimaginably grateful to have real heroes like them! Such honourable conduct of their mission will be remembered forever as the moment the destiny of Japan was saved by few tremendously courageous individuals. "

[nofurylike]

March 20, 2011 2:50 a.m. EDT

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03....reactors/

Tokyo (CNN) -- Even as workers began to see some success in their battle to cool down reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, Japanese officials said Sunday that they would have to release some radioactive gas into the air.

-snip-

Officials say regaining electrical power could bring cooling systems back online -- a key step in curbing the further emission of radioactive material and preventing a full nuclear meltdown. A meltdown occurs when nuclear fuel rods get so hot that they melt the steel and concrete structure containing them, spilling out into the air and water with potentially deadly results.

Japan's nuclear agency said workers will spend about five hours installing electrical cables Sunday before water spraying operations resume.

On Saturday, authorities set up a new system to spray seawater continuously on the troubled reactors for extended periods of time. Previously, firefighters, soldiers and electric company workers had manually done the same in brief intervals to avoid prolonged radiation exposure.

-snip-

###

[jaxx]

I am seeing hints that the #3 reactor is heating up again. Who knows if it's true. Getting water on the site is crucial, I hope the electricity to be reconnected today will do the job and everything will work.

[nofurylike]

(03-20-2011 02:22 AM)jaxx Wrote:  I am seeing hints that the #3 reactor is heating up again. Who knows if it's true. Getting water on the site is crucial, I hope the electricity to be reconnected today will do the job and everything will work.

i have been looking around for that information. please post it if you find it, and i will too!

jaxx!

[jaxx]

I'm not finding the originals, it's all updated.

Nuclear officials back off plans for tricky venting of radioactive gas at Japanese plant

By Associated Press, Sunday, March 20, 5:08 AM

FUKUSHIMA, Japan — The operator of Japan’s overheating, leaking nuclear plant backed off a tricky venting of radioactive gas from a troubled reactor Sunday as concerns grew about wider contamination of food and water.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/n...story.html

That is the entire story!

Hi nofurylike Good to see you.

[jaxx]

Japan’s government: leaking nuclear plant must eventually be closed

By Associated Press, Sunday, March 20, 4:27 AM

TOKYO — Japan’s top government spokesman says the country’s tsunami-ravaged nuclear plant must eventually be scrapped.

<..> Edano says the plant will be in no condition to be restarted.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/n...story.html

So it is finally said, the plant will never come back. I guess now getting it cooled down and stabilized.....and then how do they get rid of it?

[nofurylike]

By Eric Talmadge And Mari Yamaguchi
March 20, 2011

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110320/ap_o...earthquake

FUKUSHIMA, Japan – The operator of Japan's overheating, leaking nuclear plant backed off a tricky venting of radioactive gas from a troubled reactor Sunday as concerns grew about wider contamination of food and water.

Traces of radiation are turning up well beyond the leaking Fukushima Dai-ichi plant after cooling systems to its six reactors were knocked out by the massive March 11 quake and tsunami on Japan's northeast coast. Radiation has seeped into the food supply, with spinach and milk from as far as 75 miles (120 kilometers) showing levels of iodine in excess of safety limits, although officials said they posed no immediate health hazard.

-snip-

After the cascading troubles at the Fukushima plant appeared to lessen Saturday, pressure inside the vessel holding the reactor of Unit 3 rose again Sunday, dealing a setback to the government and forcing officials to consider the dangerous venting. Nuclear safety officials said one of the options could release a cloud dense with iodine as well as the radioactive elements krypton and xenon.

The plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co., temporarily suspended the plans Sunday after the pressure inside the reactor stopped climbing, though it was at a relatively high level.

-snip-

###

[nofurylike]

March 20, 2011

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc....reactors/

-snip-

The plant's owner, Tokyo Electric Power Co., said electricity was being supplied to reactor No. 2 , Kyodo News reported.

-snip-

At the plant itself, workers from the power company and firefighters helping douse reactors with water are taking on the risk of far greater radiation exposure.

-snip-

When he (Firefighter Yasuo Sato) sent a text message to his wife telling her he was heading to the troubled nuclear plant, he said her reply was simple: "Please become a savior for Japan."

***

[jaxx]

Headway as Fukushima pumps restart
Tokyo
March 21, 2011

ENGINEERS have restored power to cooling pumps in two reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, the first genuinely hopeful sign in the battle to prevent a meltdown at any of the six reactors.

Although power has so far been restored only at reactor buildings 5 and 6, which were not considered a particular threat, that success suggests workers are finally beginning to make headway in preventing more radiation from escaping.

<..> Officials of Tokyo Electric said temperatures in the No.5 and No.6 pools had begun to fall since the pumps restarted.

<..> Reactor No.2 is thought to have a cracked containment vessel and is potentially the most problematic reactor. Reactor No.3 is not known to be damaged, but its fuel rods contain a mixture of uranium and highly carcinogenic plutonium. Even a leak of small quantities would be disastrous.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/headway-as-f...1c2b4.html

Good article, lots of information. And whoohooo there is progress being made.

[yowzayowzayowza]

Finally some progress!!!

[nofurylike]

(03-20-2011 11:02 AM)yowzayowzayowza Wrote:  Finally some progress!!!

thank YOU, yowza^3!
and for this thread that has been so helpful to all who have been worried sick.

and yes, wow! "Finally some progress!!!"!!!



Japan!

[nofurylike]

(03-20-2011 07:12 AM)jaxx Wrote:  And whoohooo there is progress being made.

thank you for this update, jaxx! that is good news!

[sandnsea]

Glad to hear this. I hope the news about the radiation in the food supply doesn't mean there is going to be that large of an area that is completely unsafe for generations.

[nofurylike]

(03-20-2011 11:45 AM)sandnsea Wrote:  Glad to hear this. I hope the news about the radiation in the food supply doesn't mean there is going to be that large of an area that is completely unsafe for generations.

yes, it is good to hear, isn't it?
i wonder the same thing about the area.

thank you , sandnsea!

[nofurylike]

By Naoko Fujimura
Mar 20, 2011 9:53 PM ET

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-21...table.html

-snip-

No. 1: Workers are ready to restore power to the No. 1 and No. 2 reactors, Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Tetsuro Fukuyama said on NHK Television yesterday.

-snip-

No. 3: .... The reactor is rated a level-five threat ....

No. 4: .... It’s rated four in terms of threat ....

No. 5 and No. 6 .... achieved cold shutdown ...

-snip-

###

best read at link.

[nofurylike]

By Yuji Okada and Tsuyoshi Inajima
Mar 20, 2011 11:53 PM ET

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-21...point.html

Workers raced to repair damaged reactors while temperatures at all six spent fuel storage pools at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear complex are below the boiling point, indicating that dousing efforts to cool the used fuel rods at the reactors may be working.

Using a helicopter outfitted with infrared equipment, officials determined that the pools atop the plant’s six reactors were below 100 degrees centigrade (212 Fahrenheit), Japan Defense Minister Toshimi Kitazawa said last night.

-snip-

Tokyo Electric said it’s still working on connecting a power cable to the No. 3 and 4 reactors at its stricken Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear plant north of Tokyo and reiterated it plans to get them connected by tomorrow. The company is testing electrical equipment at the No. 1 and 2 reactors, said Teruaki Kobayashi, an official in the company’s nuclear maintenance department.

-snip-

###

[DFW]

When Chernobyl blew 25 years ago, and the anti-nuclear power movement got some traction in Germany, I said that if they REALLY wanted to ensure some safety for these things there should be a law that any owner of an atomic power plant would be forced by law to live within a half mile of his little baby. I'll bet safety would acquire a whole new dimension of priority if this were to be the case (or else the things wouldn't get built at all).

[jaxx]

They are now saying gray smoke is coming from #3. Very short comment so I didn't post it...the AP.

http://www.kxnet.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=746019

[RoyGBiv]

(03-21-2011 03:51 AM)jaxx Wrote:  They are now saying gray smoke is coming from #3. Very short comment so I didn't post it...the AP.

http://www.kxnet.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=746019

Via Voice of America

Quote:Nuclear authorities say workers have been evacuated from an area of Japan's troubled nuclear plant after gray smoke was seen coming from one of its reactors.

Officials said Monday that no increase in radiation levels has been detected and they are still trying to determine the cause of the smoke.

The new threat at the Fukushima nuclear plant came as heavy rain pounded northeastern Japan's earthquake-stricken regions, grounding relief helicopters and prompting increased fears about radiation.

...

A spokesman for Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said the smoke was detected in mid-afternoon and that workers were "temporarily" evacuated until the cause can be determined. He said the smoke was coming from the area of the Number 3 reactor, one of two reactors which are believed to have suffered damage to the containment chambers surrounding their nuclear cores.
Authorities said earlier that two of the six reactors at the Fukushima complex are now stabilized and that progress has been made in restoring power lines so that water can be pumped to the others. But the government says it may be days before power is restored to the Number 2 reactor, which also is thought to have suffered damage to its containment chamber. Serious problems also remain at the number 4 reactor.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/asia...50314.html

[nofurylike]

(03-21-2011 03:51 AM)jaxx Wrote:  They are now saying gray smoke is coming from #3. Very short comment so I didn't post it...the AP.

http://www.kxnet.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=746019

sigh ...

thank you for posting this information, jaxx.

[jaxx]

Thanks RoyGBiv, they must be working frantically to get power restored. And then another monkey wrench. I was glad to hear them say the reactors would never be used for power again, but how many years will it take to really cool the rods to a point they can be taken away.....and where will they go anyway?

To me this isn't a short term thing, but I'm just an unschooled person when it comes to nuclear power. I wish I knew more.

[RoyGBiv]

(03-21-2011 04:10 AM)jaxx Wrote:  Thanks RoyGBiv, they must be working frantically to get power restored. And then another monkey wrench. I was glad to hear them say the reactors would never be used for power again, but how many years will it take to really cool the rods to a point they can be taken away.....and where will they go anyway?

To me this isn't a short term thing, but I'm just an unschooled person when it comes to nuclear power. I wish I knew more.

I still suspect the plant is going to be at least partially buried. The whole reason the "spent fuel" rods have been such an issue is because they don't really have any good solutions for dealing with them.

And for what it's worth, those reactors won't be used for power again because they can't be. It's not optional. The seawater they flooded in their will prevent them being used again.

The energy company that owns the plant is actually started to take criticism that they may have delayed turning on the seawater because they were trying too hard to salvage the reactors for future use rather than addressing the problem as it stood. No clear information on this yet, but these are the current rumblings.

[jaxx]

Yucca Mountain Fukushima style. Ground contamination scares me, if not today in years to come. I have read that some of the spent rods may have damage.....any way to combat that?

[jaxx]

BREAKING NEWS: Smoke also seen at Fukushima plant’s No. 2 reactor
March 21st, 2011 at 06:33 AM

http://enenews.com/breaking-news-smoke-f...-2-reactor

[yowzayowzayowza]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03...tml?hpt=T2

Quote:...
Nishiyama said there was no evident explosion, spike in radiation or injuries at the No. 3 reactor. The smoke was coming from the building's southeastern side, where the reactor's spent nuclear fuel pool is located, but the origin of the smoke at either reactor was unknown.
...
That meant that power could now be funneled to all six of the plant's reactors for its cooling systems. But electricity was still not moving to units No. 1 through No. 4, because the quake and tsunami had damaged numerous pumps and other gear.

A Tokyo Electric official said that spare parts were being brought in, so that everything could work again.
...
On Monday, an official with Japan's nuclear and industrial safety agency told reporters that tests are expected to be conducted in the afternoon on how to use what he called a "concrete pump engine."

The engine would pump a mix of mortar and water into the reactor's spent nuclear fuel pool and containment vessel, the official said. The pool contains nuclear fuel rods that could give off radioactive material, if exposed and overheated, while the containment vessel is a steel and concrete shell that insulates radioactive material inside.
...more

[yowzayowzayowza]

(03-21-2011 07:49 AM)yowzayowzayowza Wrote:  ...
On Monday, an official with Japan's nuclear and industrial safety agency told reporters that tests are expected to be conducted in the afternoon on how to use what he called a "concrete pump engine."

The engine would pump a mix of mortar and water into the reactor's spent nuclear fuel pool and containment vessel, the official said.
...more

Apparently no mortar involved:

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/21/jap...ay/?hpt=T2

Quote:[11:07 a.m. Monday ET, 12:23 a.m. Tuesday Tokyo] Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) said it has no plans to use a concrete pump engine to place a mixture of mortar and water into the containment vessel and spent nuclear fuel pool at the No. 4 reactor. Instead, the pump would be used to pour only water. Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said earlier Monday that it expected to conduct tests on what it called a "concrete pump engine," which the agency initially said would pump a mix of mortar and water.

[HamdenRice]

Looks like this is going to be a "continuing crisis" for a long time. But it's good to hear things are no longer spinning out of control.

I posted an excerpt from a Sandia Lab nuclear engineer the other day in which he explains that the time frame for resolving this is months or years, not days and weeks.

My biggest worry now is that the Japanese nuclear workers have to stay on top of this very exhausting, unhealthy situation for a long time. Fatigue is going to be a problem and human error a risk.

There has been a very large amount of radioactive material released, especially the corrosive seawater sloshing in and out of the spent fuel pools, with its the precipitate of radioactive metals, and this stuff certainly has leached into the ground. I guess that being right on the beach, this is more likely to leach into the ocean than into under ground fresh water.

[nofurylike]

21 March 2011

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12814779

Tokyo Electric Power (Tepco) will have to compensate farmers for losses caused by the nuclear radiation leaking from its power plants, Japan has said.

The firm will have to take responsibility, said Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano at a press conference.

Japan has banned all shipments of leaf vegetables, spinach and milk from the area around Fukushima.

The government has urged calm saying health risks are limited.

-snip-

###

[nofurylike]

March 22, 2011

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/asia...16734.html

-snip-

Officials said radiation levels outside the plant had receded since a brief spike on Monday. Constant monitoring is under way after elevated radiation levels have been detected in some food and tap water and in sea water outside the plant.

Japan's nuclear regulatory agency said it hopes to reconnect power to the Number 1 and Number 2 reactor units and to the plant's central control center by the end of Wednesday, and to restore power to the Number 3 and 4 units by the end of Thursday. Officials said Monday that the number 5 and 6 units have already been stabilized.

However the Associated Press quoted plant officials saying critical pumps at the Number 2 unit will need to be replaced. It was not clear how quickly the new pumps can be delivered.

-snip-

Fuel rods in the inner core of two or three of the reactors are believed to have partially melted, but their radiation is contained by heavy concrete chambers. There are fears that the earthquake and several subsequent explosions may have damaged two of the containment chambers as well as one or more of the cooling ponds.

-snip-

###

[jaxx]

Thanks for the updates everyone. BBC says their live update has now ended. They did a good job.

[Still a Democrat]

Major setback, discussion ongoing on the Ed Show.

---

This is serious!

---

---

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

1024: Hiroko Tabuchi of the New York Times tweets: "More on plant workers: they took cover for 45mins on site&left water pumps running. There was no suspension of operations. TEPCO official"