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+--- Thread: Bonneville Power to curtail wind payments (/showthread.php?tid=5986)
Bonneville Power to curtail wind payments - sandnsea - 05-25-2011 02:05 PM
I don't know enough about this to know what the affect to the salmon really is, or whether it really isn't practical to buy wind electricity or whether Bonneville buys electricity from other sources whether its used or not. It's going to need to be resolved fairly though, if we're going to invest in truly clean energy sources.
Anaheim, CA, USA -- Wind power generators in the Pacific Northwest this week began seeing the Bonneville Power Administration (BPA) break its contracts with them, thanks to what AWEA and the wind industry called a wrongheaded decision that BPA announced May 13.
BPA signed an “Environmental Redispatch” Record of Decision, a policy which, during times of high hydropower generation, lower electric demand, and high wind generation, can lead wind generation to be curtailed without any compensation to wind project owners. That will potentially cost wind companies tens of millions of dollars and stifle new investment in the Pacific Northwest, members of the wind industry said.
AWEA disagrees with the decision and expressed its disappointment that a federal agency would choose to ignore the president’s commitment to renewable energy and break contractual commitments rather than operate the grid more efficiently — as is done in much of the rest of the country. That could alleviate some of Bonneville’s concerns that led to the decision late Friday.
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2011/05/bpa-decision-to-curtail-windpower-infuriates-industry?cmpid=WNL-Wednesday-May25-2011
RE: Bonneville Power to curtail wind payments - Dimwitted Fool - 05-25-2011 05:05 PM
Heard about this last week, and it all depends on who you listen to. Of course the wind people are screaming-- it's their ox being gored. But that's not the whole story.
The fundamental problem, iirc, is that there aren't enough transmission lines for all the hydro, wind, and whatever else generated in that area, so Bonneville reserves the right to cut what is best for them when there's too much power generation. Their argument is that they own the dams, so why pay for additional wind power that can't be used?
(Maybe someone should have thought of that before building the windmills...)
Now, if anyone really wants to help solve the problem, start coming up with some really, really good ideas how to build new transmission lines in the face of extremely loud public opposition so they can sell that wind power at times of low demand locally.
RE: Bonneville Power to curtail wind payments - sandnsea - 05-25-2011 05:31 PM
(05-25-2011 05:05 PM)Dimwitted Fool Wrote: Heard about this last week, and it all depends on who you listen to. Of course the wind people are screaming-- it's their ox being gored. But that's not the whole story.
The fundamental problem, iirc, is that there aren't enough transmission lines for all the hydro, wind, and whatever else generated in that area, so Bonneville reserves the right to cut what is best for them when there's too much power generation. Their argument is that they own the dams, so why pay for additional wind power that can't be used?
(Maybe someone should have thought of that before building the windmills...)
Now, if anyone really wants to help solve the problem, start coming up with some really, really good ideas how to build new transmission lines in the face of extremely loud public opposition so they can sell that wind power at times of low demand locally.
I don't think it's quite that simple. For one thing, the health of the salmon is a very real issue and we do lose salmon through low water levels. For them to just ignore development of wind because they don't need the power every minute or every day is incredibly short-sighted and guarantees the continued reliance on dams, nuclear, and coal since the grid is already wired into those locations. BPA needs to invest in an expanded grid in order to support the desire of the entire country to use energy that is, and always will be, clean.
RE: Bonneville Power to curtail wind payments - Dimwitted Fool - 05-25-2011 07:32 PM
(05-25-2011 05:31 PM)sandnsea Wrote: I don't think it's quite that simple. For one thing, the health of the salmon is a very real issue and we do lose salmon through low water levels. For them to just ignore development of wind because they don't need the power every minute or every day is incredibly short-sighted and guarantees the continued reliance on dams, nuclear, and coal since the grid is already wired into those locations. BPA needs to invest in an expanded grid in order to support the desire of the entire country to use energy that is, and always will be, clean.
Of course nothing is ever "that simple."
As far as the salmon are concerned, I would think low water levels would be just the time to add wind to the mix-- it's when the water is high that they don't need it.
The expanded grid is part of the problem, probably the largest part-- I doubt BPA can just go ahead and expand the grid whenever it feels like it. Not only are there often other players involved in building transmission lines, but community opposition can be fierce.
No one wants a line any where near their property any more than they want a nuke plant, oil refinery, or any other such fearsome thing.
(NIMBY at its worst-- not only ugly and reduced property values, but WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!)
RE: Bonneville Power to curtail wind payments - sandnsea - 06-03-2011 02:11 AM
More on fish, dams, and wind.
They're releasing as much water as they can right now which is creating excessive nitrogen in the water, killing tens of thousands of fish. They're releasing the water in preparation for a rapid spring run-off, which we haven't gotten yet, which is also putting too much power into the grid. So they've told the wind turbines to shut down, which is completely unfair to the turbines as they have as much right to make power as the dams do.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/02/residents-in-the-west-pre_n_870631.html